Does it sound like a cornet ?

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Lionelsax, Oct 23, 2013.

  1. Dale Proctor

    Dale Proctor Utimate User

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    With jazz, anything goes. That said, I don't see much use in playing a cornet that inherently sounds like, or is made to sound like (by mouthpiece selection and/or playing style) a trumpet. I learned to play on an American wrap cornet back in the 1960's, and then "stepped up" to a trumpet in high school. It took me until the early 1980's to gain an appreciation for cornets and begin to learn the nuances in playing them. Today, I play cornet more than trumpet, but both instruments have their place. I'll drag out my trumpet and play it when I need to, and I've doubled those two instruments so long that I think I have a pretty good handle on playing each with the necessary tone and style that's expected.

    The videos posted by the OP do sound like a cornet...jazz style. It's not the traditional brass band cornet sound or style (which I think is the historically correct sound of a cornet), though. Most of the videos I've seen of folks playing jazz cornet sound like a trumpet. If I closed my eyes, I wouldn't be able to tell which instrument was being played.
     
  2. nieuwguyski

    nieuwguyski Forte User

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    Yes, but the OP offered up his ideal cornet sound, Jonathan Pugh, whom you apparently dismissed. I think his "specific sound" isn't the same as yours. As far as which place he's looking, he threw his question out to a global community -- why assume yours is the "right place?" I acknowledge that your culture nurtured the cornet as a unique voice far better than mine, but the OP really seems to be asking about jazz cornet players. Such a beast exists on this side of the Atlantic; can you offer me an example from yours -- or will you offer me a youtube of a brass band playing a big-band standard... badly?

    If that were the case, we'd use trumpets and cornets interchangeably. Quite honestly, if the cornet worked as well for the playing I do I'd use one all the time -- I prefer playing cornet (or at least the so-named creations I can get my hands on). But trumpet simply works better for the vast majority of the playing I do.
     
  3. Cornyandy

    Cornyandy Fortissimo User

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    I agree with RA on this one but Nieuguyski please dont try to suggest playing Jazz on a Sov it would be like putting a Conn Victor cornet into Grimethorpe.....no:DROFL
     
  4. rankamateur

    rankamateur Mezzo Forte User

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    Yes.

    No

    (1) And he's getting lots of opinions and suggestions, which is good, no?

    (2) Because it is...for me. Again, it comes down to opinions.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xX09HifijgI

    (Jazz is just for kids over here)

    How about this chap? He studies jazz TRUMPET at college. I suppose he's cheating a bit because is on on soprano.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSLk_LDytKI

    Would you like me to? I can even offer you several clips, some even of brass bands playing them well, but they still sound like brass bands in the end.

    So why do American cornets sound like trumpets, then?
     
  5. rankamateur

    rankamateur Mezzo Forte User

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    Merry Ol' England
  6. Lionelsax

    Lionelsax Mezzo Piano User

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    British cornet style ? What about Mark Charig ?
    Is cornet typicaly British ? I don't think so.
    A lot of things used to be played by cornets before decent valves trumpet were manufactured.
    Now those things are played by trumpets.
    Arban learned to play the natural trumpet then the cornet and helped Adolphe Sax to create his saxhorns.
    In this time, valves on a trumpet was a stupid idea until they accepted it.
     
  7. Sethoflagos

    Sethoflagos Utimate User

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    Who says the cornet has no classical repertoire? Berlioz, Tchaikovsky, Mahler, Elgar, Vaughn Williams etc etc scored extensively for it, with separate scoring for the trumpets. The parts are most definitely not interchangeable. They're principal featured instruments in Debussy's La Mer and Prokofiev's Leiutenant Kije, and these parts cannot be rendered correctly on trumpets.

    Nor is the typical BBB cornet IMHO an exclusively British sound - it's just typical (or perhaps a development) of the European understanding

    Stravinsky knew a thing or two about instrumental scoring:

    For this, he chose cornet



    For this he chose a C trumpet and an A trumpet, exploiting the difference in sonority even between two differently tuned trumpets



    ....just saying ;-)
     
  8. Lionelsax

    Lionelsax Mezzo Piano User

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    Yes, you're right, the trumpet the way we know it is a very new instrument, just a century of story, cornet is older. In the XIXth century, trumpet was just there to play "pouet pouet" and composers and trumpeters prefered the natural trumpet because valves trumpets weren't very good at that time.
    Well, what about baroque trumpets, very long instruments (more than 2 meters) in order to play only with the high harmonics with a small mouthpiece and a very cylindrical instrument, since 8th harmonic until... they can, maybe 20th or more.
     
  9. Cornyandy

    Cornyandy Fortissimo User

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    Thanks for puting me straight on that one Seth but many orchestral players will still ignore the mark of "cornet" out of ignorance and habit.

    I suspect many American cornet players have come to the instrument after they have learnt on the trumpet and believe the skills to be completely interchangeable which they are not. I have heard Americans on here saying that a Wick 4B is too deep for them to play, I would consider a 4B the shallowest I would go for Brass Band use.

    People like Tine Thing Helseth can make the instruments sound as they should whereas a lot of American players sound in my opinion as though they are forcing the cornet to do a trumpet's job.

    My point to Lionel is that he is using what appears to be a Brass Band cornet and expecting to get a good Jazz sound from it. This might just be a case of the tools not being matched to what the OP wants but I still think he sounds like a trumpet softened off a bit rather than a cornet. Something just doesn't sit well for me. Is the cornet typically British, not overall but the one you have appears to be one that would sit better in a brass band. Which is quintessentially British

    As to Neiuguyski I don't especially care for your comment about Brass Bands playing badly, that is hardly fair. Just as you are comparing American Cornets and Shepherds Crook cornets you are comparing a Swing Band to a Brass Band, in both cases you are comparing apples and oranges and there are good and bad in both worlds a fact you would do well to remember.
     
  10. Dale Proctor

    Dale Proctor Utimate User

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    What if the Conn Victor had triggers?...:lol:
     

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