double/triple-tounging

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by crowmadic, Nov 11, 2006.

  1. crowmadic

    crowmadic Mezzo Piano User

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    Oct 3, 2006
    Any tips on double and triple tounging, and advice about where to use each. Sharing your technique would be appreciated........thanks, advanced-begginer-64yrs. of life, but not enough playing and serious study on the horn. I have infrequent access to a college music teacher, so I hope to fill the spaces with my TM teachers.
     
  2. _TrumpeT_

    _TrumpeT_ Piano User

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    Apr 26, 2006
    Just start saying TU KU TU KU for double tonguing and TU TU KU TU TU KU for triple tonguing without the trumpet. I would start with double tonguing since it is easier to learn to say TU KU TU KU. Practise exercises from the Arban's after you get used to saying TU KU TU KU. Strive for the equality of tone at the start and not so much on speed. As for the repertoire, you might like to have a look at some of the easier ones like Goedicke etude and A Trumpeter's Lullaby for double tonguing and Grand Russian Fantasia for triple tonguing, but be sure to build up plenty of tongue endurance for this one!
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2006
  3. crowmadic

    crowmadic Mezzo Piano User

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    Oct 3, 2006
    Thank you. Is double and triple tounging useful in playing jazz charts and jazz improvisation?
     
  4. signboydan

    signboydan New Friend

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    Mar 8, 2008
    Orange County, CA
    Greetings,
    I am new to this site, and just saw your post on double & triple tounging. I am a "comeback" player who really didn't play past 9th grade in High School (some 25 years ago). I have been playing now consistantly for the past 5 years in a local Concert Band, and will be performing the Solo on A Trumpeter's Lullaby. I thought this was supposed to be played Single-tounge? I am struggling on the staccato with the quick single-tounging. I know I can play it more quickly (and I believe cleaner) by double-tounging, but I've been told not to.

    Do you know if there is any history on this (single vs. double-tounging) for this peice?

    Any info would be helpful. I will be performing this in 5/08.

    Thank you,
    Dan
     
  5. Jurandr

    Jurandr Pianissimo User

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    Feb 23, 2008
    Illinois
    I'm not so sure on the song, but to build up a quicker single-tongue I use this technique:

    Start a metronome at 85 BPM and play the passage a good three-four times. Then move the pace up to 87 and play the passage another three-four times. Following the same process up to the correct BPM, and it'll very nice and clear.

    Also, welcome to TM :)
     
  6. stchasking

    stchasking Forte User

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    Jun 11, 2006

    Leroy wrote the piece to be double tongued.
    Double tongue any time you find the need. There are no rules.
    I use a book by Goldman for double tongueing. There are many available so choose one and go with it. Start slow. When I start over after a layoff I play the exercises using KU for all notes and work up to a higher speed. Then I switch to the TU Tu Ku or Tu Ku Tu Ku.

    I have the Al Hirt version on vinyl.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Trumpeter's_Lullaby
    http://leroyanderson.com/la-mp3/trumpeters-lullaby.mp3

    I also keep Concert Etude on my music stand to test my double tonguing.
    I have a copy of Buglers Holiday handy to test D tonguing and endurance.

    I'll brag a little. When I was in high school I had my copy of Buglers Holiday autographed by Leroy Anderson.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2008
  7. BlackWhite

    BlackWhite Pianissimo User

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    Feb 27, 2008
    I would recommend learning triple tounging first.If you learn double first,it would be difficult to learn triple later.
    But it's all the same as long as you do it right.
    I had friend who didn't practice it properly and ended up learning flutter tounge!
     
  8. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    Clarke had some important insite into developing quick multiple tonguing. Start with your single tonguing in the variations: tu tu tu tu (your normal tonguing) and then the same exercize with ku ku ku ku. The trick is to get them sounding the same. The latter is strenuous and I find it helpful to have a glass of tap water to help relax (take a sip after the exercize and you will see what I mean).
    You need to get your ku ku relaxed - the beginning is always with too much force.
    Once the ku ku starts to came around, you THEN add the variation tu ku tu ku tu ku.
    The concept is divide and conquer and it seems to work faster for most students that have been playing for a while.
     
  9. jdostie

    jdostie Piano User

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    Feb 20, 2008
    I have always found it difficult to triple tongue . . . at any speed, it's too easy to switch back to touble tonguing - I think because it's simple alternation between tu ku, when triple tonguing, if I am not super deliberate (and even if I try to be and speed up slightly it comes out tu tu ku tu tu ky tu ku tu ku (catch myself) tu tu ku tu ku tu tu tu ku, you get the idea.

    My plan for this in my comeback journey is going to be "singing" some exercieses or tunes starting right now . . . Of course the exercises in Arban's and anything else my teacher thinks is appropriate, but that makes the most sense to me. Outloud pronouncing at the pitch I want will allow a certain level of multitasking - without concentrating in intonation, articulation, embouchure set, amount of pressure, etc.
    Work on the pieces seperately and then introduce them together.

    It works with playing piano, first left hand very slow, then right hand very slow, then together very slow, then addition of pedal, making any adjustments, and then slowly bringing up to speed . . . The same concept should work for triple tonguing.
     
  10. Patric_Bernard

    Patric_Bernard Forte User

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    Oct 25, 2007
    California
    If your having trouble with triple tounging... I'm sure everyone that learned double tounging first has trouble with it too. I know I did. Just start really REALLY slow. Tu... Tu... Ku... Tu...Tu...Ku... really slow. It will come along. Also do what Rowuk said with practicing only ku ku ku ku ku. That does help a ton.
     

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