Double your indurance in one day!

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Rick Chartrand, Sep 14, 2005.

  1. Rick Chartrand

    Rick Chartrand Piano User

    386
    0
    Nov 22, 2004
    Toronto Canada
    Hey Guys

    Now that I have your attention, let me tell you how I did this.

    My History as a player

    I've been playing for 15 years. For the first 10 I was playing a Bach 7c. I was up to about 3 hours of endurance on that peice after 10 years and was happy with that. Then I began to work myself up to a 1c because I wanted a deeper tone for balad work. Now after playing for 15 years I have about a good 2 1/2 hour endurance with a Bach 1c. I was happy with my performance but always wanted to go way longer than that. Ok you guys still with me? Heres where it gets really cool.

    The Discovery

    One day I bought a Holton Heim #2 mouthpiece and had NO IDEA at the time of purchase that it was a 10c! Anyway I was blown away when I was instantly playing all these impossible high notes with total EASE and my endurance with this mouth piece was 5 hours! Man talk about a Godsend. Now 6 months later I have so many music jobs because of my new found endurance, and have learned so much more about playing in general because of the time I can now put in, its amazing!

    My Practise/Performance Schedule

    Theres one problem though and I'd like some imput from you guys. My practise/performance schedule is Sunday to Wednesday I play the Bach 1c exclusivly to maintain and build my lip mass. Thursday to Saturday I play exclusivly the Holton Heim 10c because these 3 nights are when I make my living and need to play 5 hours a night.

    The problem

    When I finish playing the 1c and switch to the 10c, it almost feels as though my lip cant fit into the mouthpiece for the first night. Feels kinda like shoving 2 pounds of bologna into a 1 pound bag. And visa versa, after playing the 10c for 3 nights straight, my lip almost feels a little small to fill the 1c.

    So this is my diccovery and my dilema. Lets get a good thread going here guys. Lets talk about the most important part of your horn. The Mouthpiece and your Endurance stories.

    Rick AKA Trumpet Man
     
  2. TrentAustin

    TrentAustin Fortissimo User

    3,279
    709
    Oct 28, 2003
    Boston, MA
    Why not just play the Heim and work your "bigger" sound into that mouthpiece. I play a 3D equivalent to a Bach and find like my sound is plenty big. Allen Vizzutti plays a small mouthpiece and gets a BIG (albeit bright sound)... I use a smaller mouthpiece for salsa and screaming lead stuff... but PRACTICE ON that piece everyday. I consider it a double, like a reed player shedding on clarinet and/or flute for pit work.


    My advice is to dump the 1C and play the smaller piece... or at least PRACTICE on BOTH mouthpieces during the week. Playing one mouthpiece for practicing during the week and a completely different piece for the weekend sounds a little extreme. Am I not following you? If I'm not I'm sorry (too many high notes today).

    In my opinion too many people play mouthpieces far too large for them and the whole trend of "bigger is better" is not really the correct way for everyone!

    I wouldn't run a marathon in boots (or walk one like I am on Sunday!). I wouldn't play Mahler 5 on my Shew 1.25 or Brandenburg on Bb (even though I probably could in both situations but why would you?).

    Use the right tool that does the best job for everything. You might have to split the difference eventually but I definitely think it would be better for you than the "split mouthpiece" method of practicing.

    Feel free to PM me with any specific questions!

    Best,

    Trent
    http://blog.trentaustin.com
     
  3. cmcdougall

    cmcdougall Piano User

    341
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    Feb 3, 2005
    You're walking a Marathon Trent??
     
  4. TrentAustin

    TrentAustin Fortissimo User

    3,279
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    Oct 28, 2003
    Boston, MA
    Yeah... all 2bbabsuhghghsuhggoghghhhsbsbb pounds...
    it's for cancer research and I'm raising money in memory of a great friend (and wonderful trumpeter) who passed away in January this year.

    Please pray for me as I'm sure I'll JUST barely make it!

    The info can be found at the bottom of my signature.

    Now back to the regularly scheduled program!

    -T
     
  5. Rick Chartrand

    Rick Chartrand Piano User

    386
    0
    Nov 22, 2004
    Toronto Canada
    Dear Trent Austin

    Thanks for the input and it is much appreciated.

    Theres no way that I would consider dumping my 1c as it is the mouthpiece that builds and maintains my embouchre. Not to mention giving me that deep dark sound.

    Additionally I just dont have the time during the week to play 5 hours a day. Although I love the Heim, for endless hours of performance and screming high notes, I dont like the brightness of a small cup piece.

    Correct me if I'm wrong Trent but if I play my 10c for 5 hours one night and then the 1c the other night for 2 1/2 hours, I am giving my lip the same physical workout? (My lip reaches its end of endurance by these two times with the two seperate mouthpieces).

    I have been considering what you mentioned of splitting my study time during the week with these two mouthpieces, and think I'm going to have to begin to do this so I can get away from the irritation of switching every few days. Thanks for your input Trent.

    Rick AKA Trumpet Man
     
  6. missednote

    missednote Pianissimo User

    73
    4
    Jul 24, 2005
    Naples, Italy
    I used to do the same thing. Play on one mouthpiece for it's endurance/range qualities and another for it's big dark sound. I was playing a Monette B1-5M trying to build my chops and then using the Bobby Shew series of pieces for lead and commercial stuff. I had a teacher that told me to just stick with one mouthpiece. His theory is that most of us have we he called 'hard lips'. This means that our muscles acclimate to a specific rim size and they develop around that rim. There are also what he called 'soft lip' players who can seem to switch back and forth effortlessly with no problems. For example some of the early Maynard stuff. He would take a ride on vlave bone, then pick up his trumpet and start blowin double C's like it was nothing.

    To me based on what you were saying about your chops feeling like they were too small for your other piece after the weekend, it would seem that you might be a hard lip player. Once I stopped playing the Monette piece I noticed my accuracy got TONS better on the smaller Shew pieces. I also noticed that my sound started to fill out as I got used to playing the small pieces exclusively. While it's not that big huge orchestral sound I was getting before it's still a good sound. So now I try to use the same rim diameter for all my pieces but with different cup depths. A deep cup for concert work and a shallow cup for lead work. Something to think aobut. Good luck.
    -missednote
     
  7. missednote

    missednote Pianissimo User

    73
    4
    Jul 24, 2005
    Naples, Italy
    I used to do the same thing. Play on one mouthpiece for it's endurance/range qualities and another for it's big dark sound. I was playing a Monette B1-5M trying to build my chops and then using the Bobby Shew series of pieces for lead and commercial stuff. I had a teacher that told me to just stick with one mouthpiece. His theory is that most of us have we he called 'hard lips'. This means that our muscles acclimate to a specific rim size and they develop around that rim. There are also what he called 'soft lip' players who can seem to switch back and forth effortlessly with no problems. For example some of the early Maynard stuff. He would take a ride on vlave bone, then pick up his trumpet and start blowin double C's like it was nothing.

    To me based on what you were saying about your chops feeling like they were too small for your other piece after the weekend, it would seem that you might be a hard lip player. Once I stopped playing the Monette piece I noticed my accuracy got TONS better on the smaller Shew pieces. I also noticed that my sound started to fill out as I got used to playing the small pieces exclusively. While it's not that big huge orchestral sound I was getting before it's still a good sound. So now I try to use the same rim diameter for all my pieces but with different cup depths. A deep cup for concert work and a shallow cup for lead work. Something to think aobut. Good luck.
    -missednote
     
  8. TrentAustin

    TrentAustin Fortissimo User

    3,279
    709
    Oct 28, 2003
    Boston, MA
    Rick,

    In my humble opinion the statement above of playing two pieces different lengths and achieving the same physical exhaustion or playing benefits really isn't 100% on. I think your point of sheer physical exhaustion is true... but let's equate it to walking and running. Most of us could walk 4 miles but running 4 miles without slowing down might not be feasible.

    In a mouthpiece term I can play a double D on a Bach 1 1/4c but wouldn't want to play a 5 hour salsa gig on that mouthpiece... I wouldn't want to play Fetes on my Shew 1.25 either...

    Yes, it's well known that you can achieve the same benefits (similar calorie burn for the LENGTH walked/physical health strenghtening) walking the 4 miles as running them but there are fringe benefits on EACH method that you can't get with the other.

    In many ways the 1C is your "walking method" and the Heim is your "sprinting" mouthpiece! Sorry for the terrible comparison, but it makes a little sense in my empty brain.

    I would strongly suggest playing the Heim everyday, even if only a few minutes. My experience with my Shew 1.25 is that if I don't play it for a few weeks and then pull it out to "peel some paint" I can do it all night but my sound doesn't sound or "feel" right. It feels small, compressed, and sometimes pinched.

    I think that's because the normal mouthpiece I play is wider and deeper...and most importantly it requires an extremely different concept of wind control, velocity, and finesse. I get a very full sound on that piece, mostly because I play it everyday and do the bulk of my shedding on it.

    When I do play the Shew regularly it's amazing the difference in sound and feel. I can play with a much bigger sound, I can utilize all the positives that mouthpiece has in terms of the focus and sizzle it has. I can play it on ballads and slow songs and still get a "pretty" sound. It's more reminiscent of the older big-band trumpet ballad sounds which is pretty cool actually! You might find that with even a few minutes every day on the Heim you can "warm up the sound" a bit and get it to feel much more comfortable!

    I also do a similar routine when I play pic. I play about half of my daily routine on my pic, just like I play Bb. Yes, it's an octave higher for the most part but I'm trying to get the same ease, buzz, and free blowing sound like I have on my Bb. I do this with all my horns (Bb, cornet, flug, pic, and valve trombone!) when upcoming concerts require those instruments.


    Am I making any sense?

    Best,

    T
     
  9. Rick Chartrand

    Rick Chartrand Piano User

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    0
    Nov 22, 2004
    Toronto Canada
    Dear Missed Note

    Thanks for your letter and your teacher makes a great point, but unfortunatly my study/performance schedule wont allow me to stick with just one mouthpiece. For me there would be major disadvantages either way if I played one exclusivly. I have decided that I am going to at least split my time daily with the two mouthpieces.

    Dear Trent

    Yes you are definatly making sence here :D and the running walking analogy is terrific. Well thought out.

    Since I play teach a few students and practise only Sunday through Wednesday I dont really need any great endurance here. So I am going to start splitting thses days on the two mouthpieces, and play equal amounts of time on each mouthpiece daily. Which mouthpiece should I practise with daily first...or does it matter? :-?

    Of course on Thursday through Saturday I am either playing gigs in local clubs or busking with friends, these 3 nights I am going to have to use the Heim exclusivly to get my 5 hours in. Gotta pay the bills :roll:

    Just quickly out of curiosity Trent, how long have you beem playing, and with your shew...if you press yourself how many hours can you get on one night?

    I have friends (guitar and sax players who can play 8 to 10 hours) :oops: and I am trying to get my endurance on the Heim even further then 5 hours. I'd love to be able to play eventually on that mouthpiece for 8 hours. Is that possible??? I'm really driven and love music :D

    I heard that Jerome Callet can easily play 6 hours or more! Now theres one cat I'd love to study with if I could afford to fly to New York. He's an Amazing advanced teacher I hear!

    I have been playing for 15 years and didnt really bother to gravitate towards a 5c, 3c then eventually a 1c till I had been playing for 10 years. I didnt really think at that time for the need to have tremendous endurance by strenghthening my lip, because up untill that time I wasnt working clubs or busking yet. Just studying my butt off to try and get a B.A. which i fell slightly short of. Then 6 months ago I ordered a Heim because the site I was buying it from was touting it as a ''Miles Davis'' mouthpiece. That grabed my attention because the reason I started this whole trumpet playing thing is cause I had the great fortune of seeing Miles Davis in concert twice in Toronto in 1990 a year before his untimly death.Maynard says the Trumpet is ''God's instrument, but I say that ''If God played the trumpet, he'd play like Miles'' :cool: He's the perfect balance, not to mention a Genius on the trumpet.

    Rick AKA Trumpet Man
     

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