Downstream and Arch

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by john7401, Nov 10, 2009.

  1. john7401

    john7401 Pianissimo User

    Jul 3, 2009
    I found out I use a downstream embochure, which is also why I place the mouthpiece so low on my lips, but if I was to try to add a tongue arch to help with range would it be the same as an upstream embochure and how would I do it? Also where should my tongue be for this in relation to my teeth, lips, mouthpiece, ect.?
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2009
  2. Solar Bell

    Solar Bell Moderator Staff Member

    May 11, 2005
    Metro Detroit
    Just like me...firmly in my cheek.
  3. Al Innella

    Al Innella Forte User

    Aug 9, 2007
    Levittown , NY
    The first you should do is get a private teacher who knows and understands Reinhart's "Pivot System". Where you place the mouthpiece has nothing to do with being an up or down stream player, it's the direction of your air stream that determines this,tongue levels are the same for both types.
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2009
  4. Trumpet1Ohio

    Trumpet1Ohio Piano User

    Jun 22, 2005
    Columbus, OH
    I agree with Al, where you place the mpc has nothing to do with playing up or downstream. I am a Reinhardt advocate and you dont have to do the Pivot System to use a tongue arch.
    I recommend you read the text in, both, the Irons book and Chas Colin's Advanced Lip Flexibilities. There's alot of good information in there. Also, Pops has a book available and good info on his website re the tongue arch.

    When I use the tongue arch I put my tongue behind my lower teeth. Also, when you arch your tongue it will not change you from a downstreamer to an upstreamer.

    Hope that helps.
  5. veery715

    veery715 Utimate User

    Mar 6, 2007
    Ithaca NY
    Chuck, you need a new avatar!

  6. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 18, 2006
    as much as many here try to help, you have no idea what you are doing and are on the best road to self destruction. DIY Embouchure simply makes no sense.

    I disagree with most efforts to change embouchures even with a teacher - unless all other possibilities with breathing and body use have been exhausted.

    A decent daily rouitine with long tones and slurs will normally provide everything to let your face find the most efficient place and way to play.

    In over 30 years of teaching, I have only had 3 students where I changed the embouchure. The hundreds of others did fine without it.
  7. Al Innella

    Al Innella Forte User

    Aug 9, 2007
    Levittown , NY
    Identifing the way you play, which is what Reinhardt's "Pivot System" does, is not a DIY embouchure change. It's like indentifing someone as being right or left handed,your not changing them, your just calling it what it is.
  8. Markie

    Markie Forte User

    Jan 4, 2009
    Clarksburg, WV
    Check out the site Arch tongue and Hiss
  9. john7401

    john7401 Pianissimo User

    Jul 3, 2009
    How is it an embochure change by adding my tongue to what I already do only in a more efficient way when it just sits there now?

    *My bad, thanks for your post Al Innella*
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2009
  10. Vulgano Brother

    Vulgano Brother Moderator Staff Member

    Mar 23, 2006
    Parts Unknown
    Sure, go ahead and experiment with your tongue, noting what works and what doesn't. Don't try to "change"--our bodies will remember what works.

    Good luck!

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