Downstream vs. Upstream

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by ScreaminTrumpet, May 10, 2004.

  1. ScreaminTrumpet

    ScreaminTrumpet New Friend

    Feb 25, 2004
    Lubbock, TX
    Ok guys. I have a burning. It seems that several people on this forum are very wrapped up in this downstream vs. upstream thing. In my years as a player, I have never really hear this talked about. That includes my study with my college studio, etc. So can you help the young guy out and give me an indepth look at this concept.

  2. FlugelFlyer

    FlugelFlyer Piano User

    Dec 15, 2003
    Palos Park, IL
    This should help you out:

    Doc Reinhardt probably investigated this area more than any other pendagogist (<--is that a word?). You can see all about upstream and downstream types on that page. There's a dedicated forum at trumpetherald if you have any questions, though there may be some Reinhardt students hanging out here. I'm no pro in the area, so that's about all I can say here. Good luck!
  3. kdawg

    kdawg New Friend

    Nov 19, 2003
    i'm kind of a reinhardt student... i've been taking lessons from a teacher for a few years, but i'm changing next year (adam's method)
    upstream is when a player blows into a mouthpiece, they blow upwards. on a downstream, the player blows downward.
    Most french horn players are downstream. Maynard Fergusson is downstream. Wynton Marsalis is upstream. There's more to reinhardts method. He typed all the ways the mouthpiece could be placed, horn angles, the ways jaws jut out, the direction a person pulls to reach the upper register, its really quite interesting.
  4. dbacon

    dbacon Mezzo Piano User

    Oct 24, 2003
    Scottsdale, AZ.
    Upstream, Downstream....

    .....I'm more of a Mainstream Cat myself....

    You are what your face/dental/bone structure says you are.

    Now learn how to develop your playing!

    Practice correctly!!

    MUSICandCHARACTER Forte User

    Jan 31, 2004
    Newburgh, Indiana
    And it is very complex. Too complex some would say. Upstream, downstream, pivot ... too much thinking for an art in my opinion. Sure you need to have a sound embouchure to keep from having muscle breakdown. But after that, you need to work on playing music. Dr. R has helped many people and his disciples swear by the system(s). As a shrink by day, I really do think it is overly complicated. 1, 2, 3, 4 and PLAY.

    Good players play upstream. Good players play downstream. Some pivot, some don't. Some set the embouchure and then breathe, some breathe and set the embouchure. Dr. R did a great job of classifying such stuff. You still have to play.

  6. stewmuse

    stewmuse Pianissimo User

    Apr 28, 2004
    NW Chicago
    up vs. down

    The previous posts are all correct in saying it doesn't matter whether you play up or down, AS LONG AS you are not going against the shape of your teeth and position of your jaw. Specifically, if you have an overbite (like the majority of folks do) it will very difficult for you be an efficient upstream player, because you'll always be focusing pressure on your upper lip. Same goes for the opposite. If you have an underbite, then you will more likely be successful playing upstream.
  7. ScreaminTrumpet

    ScreaminTrumpet New Friend

    Feb 25, 2004
    Lubbock, TX
    I never said that I didn't know WHAT it was. I just don't understand why it seems that several people around here are really caught up on it. That is more my question. I have never had a problem with anything air related. I guess that would make me wonder why your blowangle is such a big deal to some people. I can play anything on the can another guy but there are always going to be differences. My face is NOT his face and vice versa....
  8. Bear

    Bear Forte User

    Apr 30, 2004
    LOL, Jon *clears throat*.. I mean ScreaminTrpt. You and I have always talked about this. In fact, that thing Andy showed me was immersed in this. But as you and others have said. Just play the horn, develop the ear. Each person is different and will respond differently due to face construction. There is NO right ONE way to play trumpet. But anyways, it's tired, I'm pissed (failed Aural Skills, go figure, damn ears, lol) off. Goodnite all. I'll come down sometime this summer Jon.

    Zeus Olympus w/Monette B4, B4L, B4LVS
    Zues Flugel w/Bach
  9. kdawg

    kdawg New Friend

    Nov 19, 2003
    screamin-t -
    wups sorry about that. The reason that i've become wrapped up in it is because i've been tought it for the past 3 years. But music&character is right, and I too would rather just worry about playing the instrument and let nature do its work. Playing the trumpet is hard enough as it is. However, there are some effective exercises in the reinhardt method, and I would recomend that a future teacher look into it (with a warning that the all exercises introduced don't work for everybody). My view is that someone can never have too many fixes for potential problems, you never know what you might come across.

    i should probably also use the things my teacher said about the method too, i don't want to deter anybody from it... but later, i have a project for comp i need to finish
  10. dcstep

    dcstep Mezzo Piano User

    Nov 27, 2003

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