Ebay Auctions.... am I wrong

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Darten, Jan 2, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Bochawa!!!

    Bochawa!!! Forte User

    2,208
    1,818
    Nov 4, 2007
    Canada
    All of what you say is true. I am sorry if I came across that way.

    What irks me are institutions who lend money to people who shouldn't be borrowing it. Yeah, I know it's their choice, but the whole sub-prime thing, just to pick an example, is as much the fault of the banks as it is the people who borrowed past their means. When I say "over-priced houses and cars" I mean, "clearly beyond your ability to afford it, yet some Wall Street type readily lent you the money knowing, or at least betting, that you will default." I am talking about those crying the blues because of it, one side or the other. "At what point should people be protected from their own stupidity (or greed)?" is a tricky question indeed, but I think it behooves those who are in a position to take advantage, not to. Ethics are hazy here, I know. Likewise, I don't think we should be too hard on people who buy (say trumpets for example) off shore because they cannot afford one otherwise or whatever the reason. (I have never been a proponent of the "Hungry? Eat your import" idealology.) It's not just "their fault" that we are in the mess we're in. It's a bit of a double edged sword.

    I would never begrudge an "Arturo" for buying the most expensive trumpet in the world. I do have some trouble believing that the specialty trumpet market really justifies the prices charged. Charging what the market will bear doesn't mean that you are providing the best bang for the buck. But then, if you CAN afford it, who cares? Not my call.

    I just don't like being scolded and called "ignorant" for calling a spade a spade. We are in a big mess because too many fools have been parted with their money too easily and the whole thing has collapsed like a house of cards.

    And what was that whole "American" thing that was thrown at me, like somehow I took a shot over the border? I thought it best not to take the bait on that one! Save for a few luckily timed and placed fiscal policies we'd be going down at the same time too. We probably still are, just later. This whole Canadian banking system being the "envy of the world" (I don't know if that stuff makes your news) is just hokem.

    Anyway, I sincerely do apologize for opening this can of worms. I am home on holidays and really need to get back to work.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2012
  2. tobylou8

    tobylou8 Utimate User

    16,409
    7,525
    Dec 22, 2008
    Virginia
    Well, if someone can afford the horn, they can afford a bullet proof case aka Torpedo bags, etc.. I can understand no mpc (who needs another Bach 7C! :lol:), but no case? Oh well, it is what it is.
     
  3. BrassEye

    BrassEye Pianissimo User

    88
    22
    Sep 9, 2011
    I own a Tordpedo case. Provided the horn fits, I have no need of another case, as in my opinion the Torpedo is the best on the market. Why would I want a case with a new horn? I would rather not pay extra for something I don't want or need and then have to try and sell it.
     
  4. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Age:
    61
    16,611
    7,955
    Jun 18, 2006
    Germany
    Hey guys,
    IT DOESN'T MATTER. Price is a stupid comparison. You can't really compare a custom built anything to a mass produced another. That doesn't make the custom horn better for everybody, but sure doesn't make it worse for others. Every time price as the deciding factor comes up, I think about why. Can't we all just be proud of what comes out the front? Do some of you have chips on your shoulders because someone is building something obviously not for you? I certainly hope not. I saved for 4 years to buy my first Monette and 9 years for the second. It can be done without loans and without feeling bad because others play Bachs.

    Bochawa!!!
    Your assumption that a Monette is overpriced like cars and houses really shows how little you understand about money. Value is VERY individual and what one values is based much more than on price. My suggestion is just to work hard for the things that YOU value and then be proud of that instead of projecting your scope onto others. Trumpet has been THE major part of my life and if I think that a Monette is "good" for me and well "worth" what it costs I hope that you can understand why I think that you are incredibly off base. That has NOTHING to do with unwashed.

    Do the simple math: 6 horns a month and some cases and mouthpieces, 10 employees, R&D, taxes, heat, light, customer service. How much do the horns have to cost? Why does Dave have some very fine players as clients?
     
  5. smokin valves

    smokin valves Pianissimo User

    152
    35
    Sep 11, 2011
    What's the deal with no case? I have seen "solid" trumpet cases that are so flexible I'd prefer they attempted to parachute my trumpet through my chimney than let UPS transport my 4-9k trumpet in one of those cases. Don't get me wrong, I'm not having a bash at UPS or cheap trumpet cases but you can't expect them to include a top rate case so your going to get a cheap one, which could be less protective than a foot of bubble-wrap.
     
  6. 11thchair

    11thchair Pianissimo User

    115
    10
    Jan 27, 2005
    Evansville In
    I bought a 50 yr old Constellation with real finish issues last year. I told him to keep the case and bubble wrap it. Horns in wood cases have free space - good way to get damaged if the package gets bounced around. I bought a 6B this year - seller bubble wrapped the horn and put it in the case. Worked out okay - but I would have paid a bit more to wrap the horn separately.
     
  7. Bochawa!!!

    Bochawa!!! Forte User

    2,208
    1,818
    Nov 4, 2007
    Canada
     
    Aw come on! Now your backside is just sucking wind. I bet you could hold a high G for 35 minutes without taking a breath!

    I choose not to have a Monette for the same reason I do not have granite counter tops in my house, a Rolex on my wrist, or a Lincoln SUV in the driveway. After a certain point you stop buying quality and begin paying for something that has nothing to do with the integrity of the product or anything else. There are lots of people to whom that sort of thing is important. Many of them will even finance it. But I cannot imagine a better way to squeeze more emptiness out of a dollar. My values, I guess.

    Instead, I play a 1927 CONN 2B with a Pilczuk lead, in which I have invested about $350. Given its vintage it is very close to what would be called "hand-made" today. It’s a great player and it makes me sound pretty good too!

    So rowuk, what can you tell me about money that I am missing? What is it that I have wrong? I’m all ears.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2012
  8. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Age:
    61
    16,611
    7,955
    Jun 18, 2006
    Germany
    Guilty as charged. Only 20 minutes with circular breathing.

    Just because one does not perceive added value does not mean that none is there. Assuming that ones own values are the universal truth is the problem that any fundementalist institution has. Just like good old mother nature does when left alone - DIVERSITY is something that works. Just because you like a horn that you payed $350 for (that I probably would like too), why can't an instrument that you have spent no time with be worth what someone else payed - to them. The lame reference to credit has nothing to do with the horn. What do you base your claim of end of quality and integrity at price x?

    This is unfortunately where every thread on expensive stuff ends up (yes, violin players also argue if Stradivari are worth it, Corvette owners trash Ferraris and Lamborghinis, wine, food, art - all the same issues. Why can there be no appreciation for stuff that we can't afford? Why can't these instruments just peacefully coexist? Why the assumption that the great deal is the only answer?

    Unfortunately, this thread like many has been reduced to a discussion over personal justification of what something can be worth. The basic intolerance from both sides make this a moot point. There will never be concensus between those camps. Thread closed.



     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page