Embouchure Again. Photos attached.

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Gxman, Jan 25, 2014.

  1. Gxman

    Gxman Piano User

    Jan 21, 2010

    I have mucked around with a few ideas in terms of Embouchure again to see what I can and can not do comfortable. At the same time, I didn't want to be stuck doing it 'comfortable' way if that was actually the way I got used to which is actually the wrong way.

    So anyways.

    First 2 pictures are low C to middle C. Everything feels relaxed, and each note up only feels a 'touch' more work on mouth. So insignificant that I feel relaxed on both Low and Middle C.

    When I go from the Middle C to the D, it feels like "a lot" more work than it did previously. I mean from Low C to C feels easier than C-D in amount of 'change' it feels like occurs. The Top Space E feels like my mouth is as tight as concrete. It feels 'very' hard to play.

    Is this normal?

    In the photos I have tried to show 2 possible ways of playing. In picture A, B, C, D it is me trying to keep the lips looking the same from low C to Middle C. (keep them in that loose look).

    Picture A and B is me simply 'blowing the candles' out position.
    As you see in picture C and D, they are at the Middle space C. The lips are still kinda 'puffed out' looking as in the blow candles out look of A and B picture.

    Picture E, F, G, H are me going from the C to the E (4th space). You will notice the redness of my lips has now gotten 'slightly thinner', and looks a lot tighter.

    Now I made an example in J and K photo which is my main concern between the 2 sorts of possibilities.

    In photo J... you notice the shape of lips. Compare that to A and B which is me blowing out a candle shape.

    As I go above the C in middle of staff up to the D and the E my mouth generally wants to do that. The center of the lips is softish, you can move it around even though its very firm behind it.

    In photo K I tried to tighten my mouth for the D and E above the middle C without changing the lips from the "blow candle" out position. I get quickly sore in the corners of the mouth (jaw, inside, like when you smile too much and you get all tired in there, like cramp feeling) doing it this way. But the lips are very loose (red part) compare to the J photo. However, I find this very hard to play high and awkward (as said before) while the J picture feels natural to do that as you go up and doesn't kill the mouth (or the cheeks or whatever that side part is)

    I would also like to add that in the K photo my bottom jaw (chin) starts to push out and become more 'flat' looking rather than my "blow candles look" when im very loose for low notes. While in photo J where I tried to go high and keeping exact same lip shape as blowing candles out, my jaw (bottom chin) is still pulled back as you will see.

    So can anyone tell me which way of the 2 is right here?

    Can someone post a photo of there lip in the Low C position and then blow a top space E and another another picture of how lips look then so I can see the difference?

    Postimage.org / gallery - a, b, c, d, e, f, g, h, i, j, k
  2. barliman2001

    barliman2001 Fortissimo User

    Jul 5, 2010
    Vienna, Austria, Europe
    Nice photos, but without a mouthpiece in place, they don't say anything... or are you playing Vulgano Brother's Invisible Ray of Power Mouthpiece?
  3. Gxman

    Gxman Piano User

    Jan 21, 2010

    http://videobam.com/hMYRo - This video is the chin going out, tightening etc. Like Photo J

    http://videobam.com/xgAIM - This video is the trying to keep "blow candle" out shape even when going up high. Keeping that very LOOSE look like when you play down low. Yeah I didnt really achieve anything with this, I have other times, but this time it was for sake of the way it looks. Photo K style.
  4. mush-mouth

    mush-mouth Pianissimo User

    Aug 3, 2009
    What are you ultimately trying to accomplish here?
  5. Gxman

    Gxman Piano User

    Jan 21, 2010
    Just to know whether what Im doing is right or wrong as such. I just dont know why I can not play any songs that require 5 min of playing (melody, low C to D above middle C). I cant get the D in song after having hit all the other notes yet in scales I can. NO endurance at all and yet I been practicing 30 min every day for last 7 days.

    Am I perhaps expecting too much?

    Is the D and 4th space E meant to be Significantly harder than the low C to middle C?

    I guess just trying to work myself out.
  6. Brekelefuw

    Brekelefuw Fortissimo User

    Mar 21, 2006
    Get a teacher. You will have no success until you talk to a real player in person.
  7. tobylou8

    tobylou8 Utimate User

    Dec 22, 2008
    Longtones! If they aren't part of your regimen you will never have serious endurance! 30 minutes isn't a lot of time especially if you're resting half the time. Keep it simple. If you do ONE longtone chromatic scale starting on low C up to middle C and you can hold the note for 30 seconds and rest 30, that's 13 minutes spent on just longtones! They take up a lot of your practice time AND they are "boooooooriiiiing"!! That's why a lot of players do not do them! Regardless of which embouchure you choose, you will have to go through "Longtoneville" to develop endurance.
  8. tobylou8

    tobylou8 Utimate User

    Dec 22, 2008
    Also, IMO you are really, really really over analyzing your situation. The pics are nice but really havee little to do with the endurance problem you said you have. Brekelefuw hit the nail on the head. Get a teacher to help you.
  9. Vulgano Brother

    Vulgano Brother Moderator Staff Member

    Mar 23, 2006
    Parts Unknown
    In the still photos H looked the best to me, but the proof is in the sound, not the looks.
  10. Gxman

    Gxman Piano User

    Jan 21, 2010

    If it is H then I know what to do. Not to push the lips out as I go up higher (pic K - which is the very loose look for low notes) but let them do their natural 'tightening' course they take. Also received some messages that have pointed out pretty much the same thing.

    I am getting a teacher. My music starts on 3rd February. I tried to learn what I can before I go there because I am itching to start and it just feels like it is taking forever!

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