Embouchure... again

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Kantza, Jul 4, 2012.

  1. Kantza

    Kantza Pianissimo User

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    Embouchure... again (now with video)

    Hello

    You guys are probably sick of those people with questions about the embouchure, but I'm having some problems.
    I'm a beginner (playing a small month). Now I'm able to play from C->C (in the staff) and some simple songs, which is fun.
    Playing betwheen those notes feels very comfortable but when I try to play higher (D end E) it get's very hard, I have to blow super hard and it askes too much from my lips (force).

    So I've been looking to change my embouchure and found a way that playing an E and even a G some times feels comfortable.
    With this embouchure I can still play the C which is just under the staff, but playing an F for example above the C I just said get's more difficult and feels wierd.
    In this embouchure is my underlip almost totally in the cup and slightly curled to the inside...

    What should I do now, I've already found a teacher but the lessons start in September, which is far away :-?

    Thanks in advance
    Regards
    Florian
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2012
  2. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

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    You should practice, you're a beginner. Not sure without video or pics there is an embouchure placement problem other than a need to build and strengthen muscle. You are curiling your lip in a fighting effort to try to get a range your muscles may not be ready to attain. Don't do this (yet). Relax. Work more on breathing, less on range. Range will come with time, and the better breath support you have, the quicker range will come. This "problem" could so rapidly be solved by investing several dollars a week in lessons.
     
  3. AKtrumpet

    AKtrumpet Piano User

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    I personally wouldn't mess around with my embouchure.

    I would though, try to avoid strain, especially in your early stage of development. Focus on a relaxed sound.

    To assist in that relaxed sound; practice things like long tones and simple tunes (with the best sound you can possess and quietly a decent amount of the time) so as to let your embouchure naturally evolve and shift into a position in which it can vibrate to the fullest.

    Lastly, always try to take a full but relaxed breath and always mantain a good posture.

    Hope this helps!

    EDIT: While it's not directly related to embouchure I think it's very important for any beginning trumpet player to find someone they want to emulate. I would surf the web or YouTube and find a few trumpet players you want to sound like.

    Here's some trumpet players I really enjoy.

    Turnage Trumpet Concert (1/3) - YouTube
    Wynton Marsalis - Portrait of Louis Armstrong - YouTube
    Adolph Herseth plays Mahler No.5 - YouTube
    Miles Davis - So What - YouTube
    Navy Band and Tom Hooten - Turrin movmnt 1- NTC 2011 - YouTube
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2012
  4. Jappe

    Jappe Pianissimo User

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    Don't try to rush into the higher notes.... Give your lips and muscles the time to adjust. If you want to run a marathon you would also not be able to do it after a month of training !!! DON'T try to do something you feel it's not possible. It will harm your lips.
     
  5. Al Innella

    Al Innella Forte User

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    I think you might be better off waiting until you start lessons.If you start experimenting now and develop bad habits, it will take you longer to break them and get you back on the right track.This could actually slow you progress because of the time spent unlearning the bad habits and then developing good ones.It takes longer to unlearn then it takes to learn.
     
  6. Local 357

    Local 357 Banned

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    A month old embouchure is like a pre-mature born infant. It not only can't sit up or eat solid food it requires smaller than normal socks and even diapers. We've had good luck with giving beginners smaller mouthpieces in order for them to gain confidence HOWEVER...

    In nowhere in Florians' topic do I see anything mention of his concern for "BREATH SUPPORT". And since Arnold Jacobs, the late, well regarded brass teacher for the Chicago Symphony claimed that during his long and distinguished career he:

    "saw far more problems of respiration than embouchure"?


    So then I think we can safely assume that Florians issue will soon pass or be solved from another route.

    One school of thought promoted It think by Dizzy was that:


    "We used to teach them proper breathing for six months before even letting the beginners open their trumpet case"
     
  7. Kantza

    Kantza Pianissimo User

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    Ok, thanks for all the comments.
    Personally I don't think my problems are due to bad breathing because I know how to breath the proper way (I play sax and I've played oboe in the past).
    The first lesson I took were only about breathing, and I still do it the correct way. (Or is this different for trumpet? I don't think so....?)

    I've just made a small video to give an idea, I know it's all still a bit messy, my articulation is also not that good (yet).
    I don't practise my zero valve notes this way normally...

    trumpet - YouTube (you can adjust it to hd-720p ;))
     
  8. BustedChops

    BustedChops Mezzo Forte User

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    !!!!!!Sex comment censored by ROWUK - Family site!!!!!!

    As a comeback player myself I can't stress the importance of music. Long tones and lip slurs don't make music. They just make the chops more buff and muscular so to speak. It's best to take some simple jaunty tunes and integrate them into the embouchure development.

    In the meantime find music to work with in your embouchure development studies. Back to the sex analogy...if you've been with three or four musical charts, you've been with multiple note partners that will help you get over the hump :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 4, 2012
  9. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    Synchronizing the chops with breathing, articulation and the like takes time. That is why breathing for you has a different context with the trumpet than it does with reed instruments.

    Long tones and lipslurs promote proper interaction. They do not build 6 packs. I have been teaching for 35 years+.

    Integration of the body, breathing, brains and ears is the secret to more faster. Breathe forte but play piano to keep your chops fresh longer.

    DO NOT MESS WITH THE EMBOUCHURE. Long tones and lipslurs move the chops to more favorable positions through evolution. Much better!
     
  10. Kantza

    Kantza Pianissimo User

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    Ok, thanks for the good advice.
    What about the video I posted, can u conclude anything out of it?
     

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