Embouchure Change Problems after playing in the Red

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by trumpetaddict, Jun 29, 2012.

  1. trumpetaddict

    trumpetaddict New Friend

    Sep 3, 2010
    Hi everyone, I posted a thread on here a couple months ago about my "playing in the red" problem and having to take lessons. Well I'm currently in the process of taking lessons and my teacher instructed me to roll my top lip in and my bottom lip over my bottom teeth. I've been practicing slurs,buzzing etc etc my range and tone is slowly coming back but I'm now having quite a few problems with the dreaded "double buzz" and sometimes when ascending from the lower register it feels like my bottom lip is going into the cup of the mouthpiece. Finally , my tonguing is horrible and sometimes causes the double buzz . My teacher has provided me with lessons to correct these but I would just like some of your opinions on what to do and how to get rid of some of these problems.
  2. nieuwguyski

    nieuwguyski Forte User

    Aug 9, 2004
    Santa Cruz County, CA
    Don't ask us. Listen to your teacher. If you don't trust your instructor, find a different one. But you should probably give your current instructor more time -- it sounds like you're making progress.

    But don't ask us. We can't hear you. We can't see you. We don't know anything about you, other than what you think is important to tell us -- and that may not be what's most important.
  3. Local 357

    Local 357 Banned

    Jul 1, 2011

    Here I have to confess that I just don't have a lot of respect for the advice most teachers give their students about setting the embouchure. This is NOT a diss on nieuwguyski by the way and I see his point.

    So... I've seen some apparently serious embouchure "faults" of excellent trumpet players. Take Dizzy for instance. My own college prof played way in the red of his upper lip. Meanwhile he cautioned all of us "not to play in the red". Despite the apparent hypocrisy I still got a lot out of his teaching.

    The thing is this: Most trumpet teachers do not understand most of the physics involved with either the chops or the blow. This is easily provable if you can get them to observe the facts/truths. Most the time however they are stuck in their ways and can not. Further they don't seem all that cognizant of the PSYCHOLOGICAL factors surrounding a major embouchure change.

    In general the best thing you can do for a student who struggles is to give him an easy mouthpiece to blow like the ancient and discontinued "Al Cass 1-28" and tell him to "just tongue and blow".

    And then just forget about any kind of chop adjustments unless the teacher is qualified to make such claims. Granted there is no "Bureau Of Embouchure Statistics & Physics" (maybe there should be lol). So it isn't likely that a given teacher will be qualified to dictate what is a "proper" chop settings.

    On top of that most teachers are woefully negligent in the understanding of over training and related strength training.

    Thus when I see or hear phrases "let your teacher decide the right embouchure for you to use"??? Well its kind of an empty phrase. Not even Claude Gordon truly knew much about chops. I think the late Donald Reinhardt did but beyond him? There really isn't much sane or valuable advice available.

    On average the concept of "Just tongue and blow" will meet or beat ANY chop system ever devised. Usually anyway.
  4. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 18, 2006
    My advice is to go ahead with what your teacher says. It sounds sensible and IS being monitored in lessons. The double buzz is curable. Most of the time long tones and lipslurs solve them in a week or two.

    Tonguing is like a foreign language. We teach ourselves patterns that are not native to our current lives. We are creatures of habits and need hundreds to thousands of repetitions to "master" things. Just practice slowly at a speed where you don't make mistakes. Once the muscle patterns are trained, they are available for recall. Before that point in time, the intellectual power required to perform them reduces the quality of other things!

    I would give what your teacher says a chance before "testing" it. NONE of us has ever seen or heard you play. Any advice is strictly conjecture.

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