embouchure change

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by strad116055, Jun 1, 2014.

  1. kingtrumpet

    kingtrumpet Utimate User

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    let's not forget KINGTRUMPETOLOGY -- which in essence is - just play and be happy ---- of course a premise of this is to be able to play whatever you want on the trumpet. IN KINGTRUMPETOLOGY, the method of getting higher range (anything above the staff) is pretty much to practice long soft tones, to play in the range you can, and within 3 or 4 years you can reach the Double G (octave above the G on top of the staff) -- of course, some of the higher notes require the HIPIFI method (mainly, you Hear It first, you Play It next, and then you Feel It ---- cause my friend, if you didn't give it any OOOOMPH on that high note, then she didn't come out correctly ----- anyways, I will write a formal paper sometime on KINGTRUMPETOLOGY --- but always keep in mind, YOU RESULTS MAY VARY, because there is only 1 KT (aka KINGTRUMPET) ROFL ROFL ROFL
     
  2. strad116055

    strad116055 Pianissimo User

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    this is really great. i feel like i have just made a whole new group of friends who are smart, helpful, funny, and have the same interests as i do. what could be better? should have joined years ago.
     
  3. Sethoflagos

    Sethoflagos Utimate User

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    Firstly, let me say that like yourself, I have some teeth issues. In particular, a chipped overlapping top incisor that gave me a great deal of grief if I overdid playing in the upper register. I used this as an excuse in the past to explain why I got to 'good' (paid gigs) but not 'exceptional'. I was kidding myself. I compensated for weak chops by playing with pressure, which worked until my current comeback when my embouchure crashed and burned through overwork. I went through much the same process as you as I switched to a low pressure set up. The old 'trombone power' lower register I used to love has vanished, but something of it will return, and the compensation in time will be a solid range to G above high C without pressure. All it takes is patience. And I've not had any teeth issues for a good six months.

    Listen very carefully to Rowuk. He's at the charmless, offensive thug end of the diplomatic spectrum, but his advice is worth its weight in gold. He's been a tremendous help to me (although he's convinced I don't listen ;-))

    Now to your question:

    The Severinsen is a very easy player but just dull when I play it with my normal piece (a big throated Denis Wick 1CW). With a light JetTone it comes alive and for me is the perfect horn for the classic Glenn Miller numbers and anything in similar vein.

    The Wild Thing works well with the 1CW but with a mellow cornet like sound at moderate dynamics. Push it beyond that and it changes character dramatically becoming much more focused and shouty. Even in my better playing days I found it a bit of a beast to control so maybe you are correct in saying that it is best in the hands of the best players. But then, isn't that true of all instruments?
     
  4. strad116055

    strad116055 Pianissimo User

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    yes, i hear you. when somebody showed me how to do pedal tones one time i just picked up the horn and they just ripped out the bell. oddly, i did them for awhile, rather non-scientifically, i admit to all you gordon students out there, but while i got good at them, my high range refused to respond. i see that you are playing big mouthpieces. i play a small one; a warburton 7M with a 7 backbore, which is about a bach 10C (not a 10.5...can't play that one), or more or less .630. i have always sounded a bit on the dark side. when i had basically a french horn embouchure, big mouthpieces allowed me to play high for a very short time. (of course, i had to take 2 days off then.) i was not well-suited to play in a big band, not having enough sizzle to my sound, no matter how loud i was playing. i did have some luck in orchestras (low parts) and a brass band for awhile (3rd cornet...afterbeats mostly). while i'm not in a jazz band, i wonder of something like the severinsen would give me a nice bright edge to fit in with the other trumpets in those circumstances. i mostly play at home now, but its fun to make that sound. i have heard that the wild thing is a mouthpiece specific, tending to take on the sound of whatever piece you played on it and amplify the hell out of it, provided you were strong enough to fill the horn up. my latest crash and burn involved a yamaha 14F (built for rotary horns, they say.) it was about a 5C but comes in the box already altered to way way open. i found that i could play high on it by blowinjg my brains out and it still produced a legit sound. unfortunately, after two days of thinking i had found nirvana, i could no longer play at all. oops. it was then that i decided to change my set-up. it is interesting that you noted that this new position is a low pressure arrangement. one of my trumpet playing friends at work told me that i probably had so much meat in my mouthpiece that i had to build up the pressure in my oral cavity to get it going. in retrospect, it sure seems that way. i have noticed a lot of rowuk responses on these pages and it would seem that the man knows what he is talking about. as i come from a long line of curmudgeons myself, i'm looking forward to the day he responds to something i have written here.
     
  5. Sethoflagos

    Sethoflagos Utimate User

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    I'd stress that my bread and butter was classical orchestral, so the jazz and big band stuff was just a bit of fun on the side for me. You'll learn more about the other stuff from the guys who earn their crust on the commercial side of the fence.
     
  6. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

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    You are a blessed man.
     
  7. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

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    Throwing personal attacks at Kingtrumpet:dontknow:
     
  8. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

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    To the OP. Thanks for a great post. You can build a great embouchure around any positioning, and most of us have. Can you change it and do it again. Yep. Will the new position be more efficient. Maybe. Does it have to be 50/50. Only if you have perfectly balance dentition (or lack thereof). It does take work to model all those facial muscles into a new position of tone, but we all have the physiology to do that, but maybe not the time and determination that you had to do so, and for that, I commend you!
     
  9. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    We haff vays of making you talk...........


    I am one of the ones generally against "revolutionary" embouchure changes. My experience with a proper daily routine is that the embouchure "migrates" to its most advantageous position. You report success, so there is no need to comment.

    The circle of breath is something that I have brought to TM and the core concept is the relaxed breath. Once we have it, we replace exhale with play. After that we learn to place the initial articulation directly at the point where we transition from in- to exhale. The main purpose is NOT mechanical science, rather to integrate our body, breathing, hearing, face and soul into one cohesive block. The Circle of Breath forces the player to "slow down" and build patterns vital to production of musical tone. Once this basic production is down, the tongue is only necessary for articulation and a bit of embouchure management.
     
  10. strad116055

    strad116055 Pianissimo User

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    i've been looking forward to a reply from you. i read the circle of breath, and it makes a lot of good sense. i plan to put it to use. as to my change, i hope the good results continue. it seemed that my embouchure was migrating away from where it needed to be to produce the results i wanted. in a way, i think my old embouchure was originally a kind of shortcut, as though i cheated. have you ever read "zen and the art of archery"? it was a little like that. i wanted immediate results instead of going through the real work i needed to do. of course, it was no shortcut at all. i hope i'm on on the right track now. thanks for the help. hope to hear from you again. all best...
     

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