Embouchure question

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by DiaxII, Jul 21, 2010.

  1. DiaxII

    DiaxII Pianissimo User

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    I know this is silly to expect you fixing my embouchure via Internet but since I have no one around to do this please try to help me.

    This is actually a fundamental question. When setting lips before contact with the MP it's possible to set them in various degrees of rolling them in/rolling out.

    I notice then when I set lips in normal human position (just like I don't want to play trumpet) and then blow throught the trumpet I get low C and then with some effort I can get up to second line G and can force A out.

    If I set lips in "M" position, that's slightly rolling them in and blow I naturally get the second line G and can go up to third space C with some work. To get low C I need to drop the airflow and relax the corners of the lips because setting them in "M" position makes them already slightly tightened. To prove this I have to relax them completely to set them in normal human position.

    Which setting sounds to you more correct?

    I also remember that I've read on that kind trumpet player and educator Pop's site that beginners tend to part theit lips and that's often a problem. To me leaving lips in the normal human positon sounds like parting them for playing trumpet. Is this correct?
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2010
  2. Back at it

    Back at it Pianissimo User

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    you've opened a can of worms!
     
  3. The Kraken

    The Kraken Piano User

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    Here we go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:play:
     
  4. DiaxII

    DiaxII Pianissimo User

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    Whatever there was in that can I've discovered an important thing that I knew about but was unable to realize.
    After asking my initial question I decided to experiment with the "M"-embouchure and I didn't believe it- I could almost effortlessly play an octave!
    Actually I started on trumpet two weeks ago after three months of MP buzzing. I could hardly play the A above second line G before today and today I changed the embouchure and found that 1)the trumpet can sound as trumpet if I approach the embouchure from the "M"-model and 2) I can play the third space C! I mean I can start it and hold it.

    I have three years of woodwind playing experience and I didn't believe that I couldn't paly an octave on the trumpet. Now I see I can :) I only don't know if I've made the correct embouchure adjustment.

    Also what this adjustment allowed me to do was almost complete elimination of the MP pressure on lips. What I actually was doing after the adjustment was lip buzzing into the MP. Yes, I could do the lip buzz before but today I noticed that I didn't transfer the free lip buzz into the MP and I completely changed the embouchure when I connected the trumpet to my lips.

    So, the sound was weak and spread. I was blowing hard to get the sound out. As you may guess I have rather good breath support after three years of woodwing playing and with my first "loose" type of embouchure all that breath support was applied to incorrectly set lips. I was wearing out quickly and my chops were very tired after 5 minutes of "playing".

    With this new to me type of "M"-setting I found that I can take the pressure off the lips almost completly and when I did that I found that if I tightened the lips corners more I could focus the airstream and hit that third space C with almost no effort and barely touching the MP.

    I know it's very hard to describe something like this because it's all very subjective. Anyway do you think I'm on the right track now?

    To summarize in two words the above I did this: I took the MP pressure off the lips and applied the pressure to the corners of the lips through forming the "M"-embouchure. At first I could not get the sound with this new embouchure setting and could only get some gurgling. Then I added a little more breath support and the gurgling turned into the second line G - bright and clear. Then I reailized that with the first loose embouchure setting I was not able to add more breath suppot for some reason and the sound started to cut off above second line G that was sounding thin and fading out.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2010
  5. The Kraken

    The Kraken Piano User

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    Good News, keep up the good work
     
  6. Markie

    Markie Forte User

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    yep
     
  7. Back at it

    Back at it Pianissimo User

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    sounds like things are working. A good teacher is your best bet. In the end, we develop by feel over time.
     
  8. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    Diax,
    it almost makes NO DIFFERENCE at your stage of development. There is no magic beginner embouchure that short cuts anything. I teach M-bouchure and lots of practice, not lots of discussion. Playing enough helps you gravitate to the natural best position. Internet embouchure is often a recipe for frustration. getting someone local to guide you helps to keep the mistakes that really drag one down minimal!
     
  9. Bob Grier

    Bob Grier Forte User

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    You say you have no one around to help you. Do you have a web cam?
     
  10. DiaxII

    DiaxII Pianissimo User

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    Oct 22, 2009
    E.Europe
    Yes, but I'm not after 'magic embouchure' but rather after correct one. Because I did notice real difference I wanted to hear some opinions based probably on teaching experience.
    I was feeling that I was doing something wrong because I knew I already had enough lip muscle and good breath support to play at least an octave from low C but I couldn't. Now I see I have the ability.

    Rowuk, thanks, I see I need to take your advice seriously otherwise I'll be "wandering in the dark" and perhaps missing my chance to progress.

    Bob, thank you very much, I really appreciate your offer but I think I can find someone locally if I look around a little harder. I was hoping that I could get away without the expert help but now I see there are to many variables to deal with and in the beginning I can't figure out the correct values all by myself :)
     

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