embouchure question

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by jdturbo22, Nov 16, 2013.

  1. jdturbo22

    jdturbo22 New Friend

    8
    0
    Nov 11, 2013
    I am currently on a 3 year come back, I had laid off the horn for 15 yrs. I currently play in a funk band and i am more then adequate for that. I use to play picc trumpet, orchestra and lead playing, I performed constantly and was a fairly strong player, good endurance and range.
    Here in lies the problem, a year and a half ago at band practice, I pushed it way to far and did some sort of embouchure damage, for months I could barely play anything and what I did play was atrocious, with constant pressure from my fiance to keep pushing and practicing, My sound has come back and it really is "pretty" but My low register 2nd line low G on the staff is not at all good. My lower lip colapses in into the mouthpiece or quivers. I believe this also has something to do with my endurance. I do a lenghthy warm up and the low notes still are "not good". The low register comes in after I am "slap worn out". If any one has experienced this or has any ideas how to find a remedy for this, I am all ears, because this is really holding me back from performing diff types of playing.
     
  2. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

    18,113
    9,264
    Jan 28, 2011
    Dayton, Ohio
    Let me take a stab at this, but without an examination, my input may be missing something. From your story out to 1.5 years ago, it sound like you had damaging muscle strain, where you likely tore muscle fibers. In this extreme situation, the muscle heals by laying down scar. This is why I believe your low range suffers as when we "lip down" to better attack low notes, control is deficient. Only when you begin fatiguing (slap worn out) does the lower register come in. With fatiguing other muscle groups come into play to take over, and this seems to "work around" the prior damage. So... If through embouchure training you can learn, or get a feeling as to the sensation in your lower lip when you get slap worn out, and try to reproduce this feeling when you are NOT slap worn out, you may regain the ability to overcome the damage done previously by training new muscle to take over.

    1. Do you notice a difference or asymmetry in your lip when you pucker as if to kiss?
    2. Can you whistle in the upper and lower register?
    3. Can you blow up a balloon without much difficulty
    4. Say these words for me: "Kingtrumpet is a doofus"; Did it feel better to your mouth after saying these words?

    Other than the last step, this could be a sight of dysfunctional muscle coordination; that last sign, well that just makes me feel better.

    Without examining you while you are playing, it will be tough to give you a definitive answer. Anyway, It will be interesting to see what others have to say about your situation, but when all is said, my recommendation will be the best as I am a physician highly trained in muscle physiology and all things that go bump in the night.
     
  3. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

    18,113
    9,264
    Jan 28, 2011
    Dayton, Ohio
    By the way, welcome to TM. And to make things easier for you, anything I say is true. Vulgano Brother gets it right most of the time too, but he does have his issues, and if you do not believe me, just look at all the pics he posts on the Random Thread... Nuff said. I think you get the picture - Unfortunately.
     
  4. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

    18,113
    9,264
    Jan 28, 2011
    Dayton, Ohio
    By the way, don't let my humor trouble you... I'm just gifted that way.
     
  5. jdturbo22

    jdturbo22 New Friend

    8
    0
    Nov 11, 2013
    If I didn't have a sense of humor, I would find all this quite disillusioning.
     
  6. Dr.Mark

    Dr.Mark Mezzo Forte User

    920
    704
    Apr 5, 2011
    Hi JD,
    You asked:
    A year and a half ago at band practice, I pushed it way to far and did some sort of embouchure damage.
    ----------------------------
    Ask yourself, "what is pushing it"? Chances are you went somewhere on the horn you couldn't go and are an "arm strong" player.
    -------
    for months I could barely play anything and what I did play was atrocious, with constant pressure from my fiance to keep pushing and practicing, My sound has come back and it really is "pretty" but My low register 2nd line low G on the staff is not at all good. My lower lip colapses in into the mouthpiece or quivers.
    -------
    Chances are you were not taught how to use the lips correctly. Don't get mad or pissed. Most horn players don't know how to use the lips. They depend more on adjusting the pressure via the arms instead of using the corners of the lips to adjust the intervals.
    -----------
    I believe this also has something to do with my endurance. I do a lenghthy warm up and the low notes still are "not good". The low register comes in after I am "slap worn out". If any one has experienced this or has any ideas how to find a remedy for this, I am all ears, because this is really holding me back from performing diff types of playing.
    -------------
    Sorry to hear about your problem. However, you can trace the problem to a single incident. Freddie Hubbard had the same problem. He was a "arm strong" player and one time he was performing with Jon Faddis and in the process of trying to play high like Jon, he screwed up his lip really bad. To add to the problem, he continued to play eventhough his lip said "give me a break!!" The answer for you appears to be the same. "Stop damaging your lip!!" I'll PM you as to something that has helped a lot of people in this situation.
    Dr.Mark
     
  7. jdturbo22

    jdturbo22 New Friend

    8
    0
    Nov 11, 2013
    The 4 things you listed, I have no problem with, perhaps its just old age, only saving glory is that I feel consistent from day to day, 6 months ago every day was different, it didn't make playing a whole lot of fun.
     
  8. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

    18,113
    9,264
    Jan 28, 2011
    Dayton, Ohio
    Dr. Mark, could you post this for all of us here on TM as your input is always spot on and we could all learn from this... Yeah, even me.
     
  9. Dr.Mark

    Dr.Mark Mezzo Forte User

    920
    704
    Apr 5, 2011
    Hi gmonady
    I sure can. I'll post it later this evening but for now I've got to scram to a performance. Wish me luck!!
    Dr.Mark
     
  10. jdturbo22

    jdturbo22 New Friend

    8
    0
    Nov 11, 2013
    Ty Dr Mark, I am going to give that a shot, While I don't feel I am a "strong arm player", My endurance definately is not good and when I was younger I could play for ever, Thank you for your input and yes I will try this
     

Share This Page