Embrasure development?

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Invisible-Bob, Jun 11, 2011.

  1. Invisible-Bob

    Invisible-Bob New Friend

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    How long does it take to develop your embrasure to the point of being able to play simple tunes? I just got a Yamaha YTR 8335RG Xeno trumpet but I can't make a sound on it other than the occasional tone that seems to pop out from nowhere only to disappear very quickly. I know this is going to take some work but what's about the average time for being able to play scales all the way through? Trumpets aren't like most other instruments where you can get the things to play emediately.
     
  2. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

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    As long as it takes is the answer. There are so many variables here and each person is unique to how they adjust to the variables. At the core to all this is the practice routine.

    A warm up is essential, and long tones are the best. Even before this, work on just breathing. I like the exercise where you take 3 deep breaths, holding after each breath. The 3rd breath is the deepest. Hold it, THEN TAKE ONE MORE all the while with wide open arms opening further until they cannot open anymore. Then release all the air in a slow steady stream. Do this a couple of times, then you are ready for the long tones.

    Once you do the tones, work on an exercise from a book your teacher has provided. You do have a teacher don't you? If not, this is the next variable that is so important. You really need a teacher.

    Finally in the beginning, once you have a practice goal, begin your practice working TOWARD this goal. But do stop when you begin fatiguing, and at the beginning, this can be within the first 15 minutes of a practice session. That's OK, it's normal. Then quit for the day. Take it up the next day and within a week or so you will be up to a half hour. But even then you will fatigue and you will stop.

    So how long does it take to reach the goal you choose? I have been playing 40+ years and am still trying to answer that question. So to answer your basic question when the goal is to achieve playing simple tunes, it would be reasonable to give yourself several weeks. Always set your goals for success! Then relax, take it easy, and you will not fail.
     
  3. CaptainAddy

    CaptainAddy Pianissimo User

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    Take the main tuning slide out, and insert the mouthpiece into the mouthpiece receiver, and buzz. It won't sound good at all, but the point here, is to try and make a nice, quality buzz. Do this for about 30 minutes everyday, not all at once, (or until you just can't anymore) for about a week and a half. Stick the tuning slide back in, and see how much easier it is, and how far you've come. Then start long tones, and get a good teacher.

    Good luck learning the trumpet!
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2011
  4. richtom

    richtom Forte User

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    A word of caution must be added here.
    When you are actually going to start a note, take your deep breath while imagining a breath taken when you yawn but do not EVER hold that breath in when you are ready to start your note.
    Holding the intake - even for a second - creates a blocking of the air flow and often triggers the valsalva manoeuver which locks up the wrong muscles and inhibits the needed airflow for triggering the sound you want. There is nothing worse than a nit-wit music director who readys his/her musicians by allowing them to breathe in and have hold it waiting for the downbeat.
    This information comes from the teachings and publications of the Vincent Chicowicz Air Flow and Long Tone studies.
    Taking deep breaths and holding them in is a good exercise to increase lung capacity, but just do not hold your breath in before starting your note. Breath should flow in a smooth in and out movement with no interruptions.
    Your lack of sound comes from a lack of embouchure formation and poor air flow.
    You need an in-person teacher to help you get started.
    Rich T.
     
  5. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

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    Agree completely with the above quote and advice post. My advice was a warm up breathing exercise PRIOR to beginning long tone warm ups. Just as this poster noted, the breathing exercises builds up lung volume (residual capacity) which you will carry with you as you begin your NORMAL breathing methods as this poster nicely summarizes. So for clarification, my breathing recommendations are to "warm up" the lungs and is "not" the technique used to actually play the horn.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2011
  6. kingtrumpet

    kingtrumpet Utimate User

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    and consult the doctor when he responds --- BUT residual lung capacity can be enhanced by playing a WIND instrument that offers "resistance" to the air flow -- so no matter what age you are -- practicing/playing a wind will increase vital and residual air capacity in your lungs.
     
  7. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

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    Not really, KT. The residual volume is important to a healthy person because it prevents the lungs from collapsing at very low lung volumes. Such collapsed alveoli would require extremely great inspiratory efforts to reinflate. The residual volume is a function of lung elasticity and is dependent on disease states diminishing elasticity, which is NOT a function of the wind instrument.

    It is the total lung capacity (TLC) that is of most importance to the trumpet player. The total lung capacity is the volume of air in the lungs after a maximal inspiratory effort. It is determined by the strength of contraction of the inspiratory muscles and the inward elastic recoil of the lungs and the chest wall. The force to blow will then be the difference between this stored energy within the volume of the TLC and the pressure on this stored air generated by contracting expiratory muscle. Wind instruments, where the lips can control the outflow (metal mouthpieces where lips provide against the surface to serve as a release valve mechanism) will provide the best mechanism to provide the greatest psi, which aids tremendously in the ability to maximize the vibration of the lips as the column of air rushes past them and into the horn.

    By the way KT, thanks for the consult. This one will cost you $280.00; the traditional $15.00 co-pay is still in effect. Again, fax your insurance information to my office.
     
  8. kingtrumpet

    kingtrumpet Utimate User

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    OK - without arguing semantics and medical terms that are beyond the nature of this post -- let me say that I want a 2nd opinion from another doctor, especially before I pay for a consulting fee that may have to be forfeited anyhow - by you.

    a rudimentary - 10 minute search - finds some information from documented sources that seems to be in conflict with your opinion. Most notably the first listed source.
    the following sources are mostly for patients needing respiratory rehab - and the majority seem to use harmonicas (I presume they are easier for the normal patient to quickly learn and enjoy) making rehab more beneficial.
    I left out the UPMC - University of Pittsburgh Medical Center - as I would need to do more research to substantiate their claim that musical wind instruments - increase lung function -- (ie. CBS story quoted below) - however they seem to be on the leading edge of this research.

    maybe I should charge you a consulting fee :dontknow: - or we should wave the fee altogether this time -- because of unconclusive evidence on your part.:dontknow:

    I suspect further -in depth- research would be more conclusive that playing a wind instrument with resistance will increase lung function - if not lung capacity also. ****disclaimer the first source also claims possible negative effects for wind instruments***

    Respiratory function in wind instrument players. [Med Lav. 2009 Mar-Apr] - PubMed result
    CONCLUSIONS:
    Our data suggest that musicians playing wind instruments may be susceptible to chronic upper airway symptoms. Interestingly wind instrument playing may be associated with higher than expected lung function parameters.


    Sensation of inspired volumes and pressures in professional wind instrument players J Appl Physiol June 1, 1990 68:2380-2383

    How Music Eases Asthma - CBS News

    Music Therapy Program Partnership Announced | Maryville University

    Not Your Typical Medical Instrument: Harmonica Therapy Helps Lung Disease Patients - NurseZone

    Music for Your Lungs -- Pulmonologists Treat Breath Shortness with Harmonica Classes
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2011
  9. Myszolow

    Myszolow Pianissimo User

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    It varies, but I would think you ought to be able to play a simple c scale over one octave within a few months (some people can do it much quicker).

    On a point of order though, the word is embouchure - derived from the French word "la bouche" meaning mouth.

     
  10. kingtrumpet

    kingtrumpet Utimate User

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    traditionally I think it is one tone (one more note) each month for reasonable progress
     

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