embrochure dilema

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by coolerdave, Apr 15, 2011.

  1. coolerdave

    coolerdave Utimate User

    Nov 7, 2009
    San Pedro
    okay the comeback is going pretty good.. but I am at a cross roads..
    I have this leak thing going on but my tone is pretty good ... I do believe my tone is a little on the spread side .. (but is has alwaysbeen that way)
    I recieved some pretty good ideas on how to eliminate the leak.. if I pull in my lips and put a little more of them in the mouthpiece the tone pinches but at the same time I can see that I can move around with much less movement ... lip trills become easier ... range is easier ... only problem is how it sounds ... but I don't think the sounds spreads with this setup.
    The embrochure I have always used was less lips in the mouthpiece but it is harder to perform lip trills and I feel like I have to work to move around... but the tone has always drawn compliements ... but it is not a standard orchestral sound ..
    When I watch players classical concert professonals they "appear" to have very little movement and their chops seem to be set in the mouthpiece..
    I am looking for opinions here .. except for "ask my instructor" ... I will be fine and won't destroy my chops..
    so try to stick with the tighter setup and work on openning the enbrochure as my chops build up stregth.
    Don't screw with it .. work on building strength and pulling in the leaks.
  2. craigph

    craigph Piano User

    Mar 12, 2010
    Breath attacks are a good way of setting your embouchure.

    Seems your spelling is also at a crossroads. :)
    embrochure -> embouchure
    dilema -> dilemma
  3. coolerdave

    coolerdave Utimate User

    Nov 7, 2009
    San Pedro
    spell check ..my demise

    I am trying to figure out if I should roll in my top lip..and close up my lips more ... but that pinches the sound .. from there I would have to work on opening up the orafice to bring back a fuller sound .. I am guessing that this would also be a less spread sound or more "mature" sound.

    I see you are in Japan ... are they getting a handle on the recovery ... so terrible
  4. AKtrumpet

    AKtrumpet Piano User

    Jun 4, 2010
    The act of suddenly changing the way you play is not a method I have or do subscribe to. Personally I would ask my teacher for evolutionary methods that lead to a more efficient use of my air and embouchure.

    However, as you did state that you didn't want the advice to ask your teacher, I would suggest long tones, pedal tones, slurs, and perhaps a more systematic approach to your playing. ;-) Ultimately, no advice on TM will be given with the 100% assurance that it will benefit your playing. So again, your best off asking a teacher.
  5. coolerdave

    coolerdave Utimate User

    Nov 7, 2009
    San Pedro
    hmmmm.. okay let's try this again
    Start closed ( pinched tone) and work open
    Start open ( a little spread tone and a leak) and work to close
    and yes I am working with my airstream ... I am trying to be more efficient.
    Maybe even pushing out my jaw a little bit more ...( I am very cautious with that one)

    I have had hundreds of hours of lessons ... and because my tone and playing were pretty good I honestly believe they didn't want to mess with it ... good instructors... with students in major symphonies all over the planet
    Practice is systematic.. daily (as possible) ... we have alot of really good trumpet players here.. someone has got to understand my question..and have a gut feel for this.
    Some of the links I have gotten are great but they also have conflicts ... which is fine ... don't believe trumpet is one size fits all anyway.
  6. trickg

    trickg Utimate User

    Oct 26, 2003
    Do tonguing exercises. Lots and lots of them. Do them soft and low - do a fair amount from G in the staff and below, all the way down to low F#. Do them until they become crisp. I tend to do a lot of single tonguing as fast as I comfortably can.

    A couple of things usually come out of that for me, chiefly better focus and more efficient air usage. Give that a shot for a week or so and if you don't notice an improvement, I'd be surprised.
  7. coolerdave

    coolerdave Utimate User

    Nov 7, 2009
    San Pedro
    Patrick... that's one of the exercises I always do.. wish more players did, especially kids.
    Maybe not in the lower register.. I use the Arban exercises around pg125 for this one.
    Does wonders for the tone and lip strength .
    So are you saying try closing it up and then use the tonguing exercises to open up the sound or keep the same embrouchure set up and use tonguing exersizes ( which I am currently doing)

    and thanks for taking a crack at it
  8. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 18, 2006
    My take is that tone is not developed with embouchure exercizes, rather by playing music in nice sounding rooms.

    For those of you that are willing to take a walk into a bit of psychoacoustics:

    Our ears work in many interesting ways. They can sort out information (carry a conversation on a noisy bus), determine distance for things that they have already heard, analyse tonality and many other things. One of the major tools at the ears disposal, is the ability to sort out "early" and "late" reflections. The early reflections are those within the first 10ms or so. Those early reflections actually confuse the brain about many things and require quite a bit of processing power to filter the effects out. The later reflections actually give the ears clues about distance and tonality. That means that you are doing yourself a BIG favor by NOT playing into a wall a couple of feet away.

    When we reduce the amount of processing power required by the brain by practicing in faily large, good sounding rooms we benefit in additional ways. The feedback loop being spread over a longer time gives our muscles a bit more time to react and this results in dramatically less effort in producing a big, full, powerful sound. That in turn also helps us build muscle habits in a very positive way.

    Moral of the story: big rooms with nice sound help your sound get better faster by working with your brain/muscles in a more natural way. Small rooms present your ears with an overly bright, early reflection overloaded sonic image that simply wastes brain power. That makes it HARDER to get better.
  9. coolerdave

    coolerdave Utimate User

    Nov 7, 2009
    San Pedro
    Robin.. you always have interesting and different takes... I never have considered the synaptic associations of playing in large rooms.. although we all love to ... can I have an old Cathedral with vaulted ceilings... the best
    A really good instructor I had in High school had me play staccato right into the music stand... so I could hear my attack ... which is effective .. the side effect was tone improvement.
    I wonder if playing into a mic wearing headsets and setting the acoustic effects to concert hall would accomplish this.
  10. Vulgano Brother

    Vulgano Brother Moderator Staff Member

    Mar 23, 2006
    Parts Unknown
    Jut a wild internet guess, but have you tried bringing your corners closer to you eyeteeth? Shot in the dark I know, but sometimes even they hit.

    Good luck!

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