Endurance issues

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by USMCTrumpeter, Oct 26, 2006.

  1. Liad Bar-EL

    Liad Bar-EL Forte User

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  2. Majestic

    Majestic Banned

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    Training results in a decrease in lactate production at any given exercise intensity. Untrained individuals usually reach the Lactate Threshold (LT) at about 60% of VO2 max. With training, LT can increase from 60% to above 70% or even higher. Elite endurance athletes and top masters athletes typically have LTs at or above 80% of VO2 max. Values approaching 90% have been reported. The lactate threshold is both responsive to training and influenced by genetics.

    Lactic Acid production is not all bad. If we could not produce lactate, our ability to perform brief high intensity exercise would be almost eliminated. However, as I am sure you are aware, lactic acid is the demon of the endurance athlete. Cellular accumulation of the protons (increased acidity) that dissociate from lactate results in inhibition of muscle contraction; thus, your inability to blow the trumpet.

    You might want to STAMP/STOMP this into your memory banks without any Lactic Acid production. ROFL

    MJ
     
  3. tromj

    tromj Piano User

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    My suggestion would be to try and reorient yourself by playing some short to medium length vocalise etudes. Get into a groove of completing something within your grasp that focuses on beautiful melody playing, and forgo the more complex technical aspects of etude performance. It's important to challenge ourselves, but it's also important to remember the beauty of a simple melody and connect to why we make music to begin witrh. Reconnect with what you love about playing.
     
  4. Energy411

    Energy411 New Friend

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    I find it interesting that we're seeing a lot of advice to take it easy and don't play. I find somewhat of the opposite to be true. (I really liked Lied's long response). Endurance comes with consistancy of thought and consistancy of action. You can't improve these things unless you do them, a) correctly and b) a LOT. USMC Trumpeter, I've been there. In fact, I'm pretty sure I know you...how's the family?
    I think long tones and clarke's are damn good advice, as long as you're playing with the right sound all the time. Don't let your sound change as you go up and down on the clarke's. Start in the middle and work out from there. Find that place where your'e comfortable, with a strong, energized sound. Have fun, be creative, let things go and stay positive. I've heard the anaolgy that 'that place' is kind of like waiting to hit a pitch in baseball. You're not tense, you're loose and free, but your'e not loafing either. Find that place and stay there....for your long tones, clarks, lip slurrs, tounging, schlossberg, etc....then stay there some more things you KNOW you can play well. when you go back to the etude, see how long you can play with YOUR sound, not leaning into it (tense), and not loafing with no energy either. I mean, sure, keep your corners in the same place, but i think you'll find your endurance will get better as your consistancy of thought gets stronger. I hope this helps!! drop me a line sometime buddy...

    JP
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2006
  5. rjzeller

    rjzeller Forte User

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    So...the lactic acid bit makes sense and explains how one tends to get tired more quicly when playing an extended passage vs. a lot of passages with some short rests. But it has me wondering...

    ...what is the best way to get that endurance up so that you COULD play literally six minutes solid without rest? I ask because our quintet has an arrangement of Pachelbel's canon in D, and the first and second trumpets NEVER REST. I get through it okay, but my partner just dies each time. And I can see where he's coming from considering the complete lack of rest.

    so what's the best advice one such as myself can give such a person?
     
  6. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    I would think about changing the arrangement giving your buddy a couple of bars rest. Six minutes is tough on anybodys chops.
    I played an arrangement of the canon for trumpet and organ. I used my G trumpet and got through OK. The Bb, C or D horns didn't leave me enough reserve energy to perform this properly.
     
  7. W Scott

    W Scott Piano User

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    Six minutes!? Are you guys kidding? Not to be a smart a**, but six minutes isn't all that much. My teacher has an exercise that we do with Clarks and we've done 12 minutes on several occasions with no rest. Start on Clarks at No. 10 and go to #25, playing the ink. Don't take the horn off your chops, breathe only through your nose. Or, start at #1 and go to #16. Either way, don't take the mouthpiece off your chops, nosebreath only, and go until your chops just won't work.

    Bill
     
  8. rjzeller

    rjzeller Forte User

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    I've tried to redo the arrangement a few times, but with only two trumpets, a horn, trombone, and tuba, it's very hard to make it work out without losing some depth if you give either trumpet much rest.

    Six minutes may sound short, but for those who play only part time like the person in question, that is a pretty demanding bit. I'm sure you have no issues with it, Bill, and I know some here in town who also don't, but the fact is that for many, six solid minutes without even a quarter-rest is pretty taxing....
     
  9. Eclipsehornplayer

    Eclipsehornplayer Forte User

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    Ditto RJ!

    I have fair chops (I think) and if I played anything six minutes without a rest; it would seem like an eternity! Depending on what it was I may have a very hard time trying to do it.
     
  10. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    RJZeller,
    sometimes 2 beats rest can be a life saver.
    Check if your buddy has enough time to breathe. If there are a couple phrases where he only has "time" to half fill up, the beating his chops will take with a reduced amount of air over time will destroy any endurance. Have him mark in pencil the places to take that complete breath! I teach "breathe when you should, not when you have no other choice". His problem could be that simple.
     

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