Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by jazz9, Jan 3, 2008.

  1. brem

    brem Mezzo Forte User

    Sep 13, 2007
    Quebec City, QC, Canada
    Patric: it's important to use the right terms. That's all.
  2. Vulgano Brother

    Vulgano Brother Moderator Staff Member

    Mar 23, 2006
    Parts Unknown
    Any complex system, be it theology, psychology or trumpet playing poses huge challenges when we try to talk about it. It is not simply a case of being too vague for words, it is the words themselves that are too vague; a large part of serious academic study involves learning the vocabulary of various schools, while the actual how-to-hands-on teaching involves modeled behavior copied by the student.

    A classic human challenge is the “Do this!” problem. Tom tells Anne “Do this!” and touches his nose. What is poor Anne do to, touch her nose, or Tom’s?” Only feedback from Tom can tell her what he expected, and if he is Zen Master Tom, he may be asking for a spontaneous display on the part of Anne, and really mess her up.

    When we have a question about one specific part of our playing (in this case, endurance) it is perhaps best when we limit our answers to that one part, rather than offer a complete holistic approach to the trumpet, life and everything.
    jazz9 and tatakata like this.
  3. jazz9

    jazz9 Piano User

    Dec 5, 2007
    Chilhowie, VA
    Very good post, VB. I agree completely. I also appreciate everyone's help on this subject. Thanks a lot for your time!
    I didn't mean to get a big argument going between rowuk and patric. Sorry guys for that one.
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2008
  4. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 18, 2006
    Thank you Jerry!
    Jazz9, sorry, see below!
    Patric, I do not mean to get carried away. The problem for me is not dyslexy, terminology or DIY. There is a difference between researched and guessed, also between read and understood, practiced and performable, teacher and student. For me there is a clear line beyond which I have the urge to respond. Poorly reseached posts are definitely on the urge side of the line. Misinformation generally draws an immediate reaction.
    If you have ever gotten the impression that I am attacking your person or your playing, then MY terminology was not adequate. I do not know you and never have heard you play and therefore cannot pass judgement on your playing. I have had some students that discuss like you post however. One lesson is generally enough to get them asking good questions instead of speaking about things that they do not know much about. That lesson does not involve criticism of opinions or any infringements on the rights to free speech. It involves a one on one demonstration of what actually happens when playing, without discussion of abs, diapraghm, lungs, aperature or embouchure. If you were in the Frankfurt, Germany area, I would have offered a free lesson to get a better common denominator. I think when you get to know me, some things are easier to understand.
  5. eisprl

    eisprl Mezzo Piano User

    Sep 26, 2004
    Halifax, NS CANADA
    How is this helping endurance?
  6. tatakata

    tatakata Mezzo Forte User

    May 29, 2007
    "and whatever else is located under it" :lol: we are really getting somewhere now ;-)

  7. omelet

    omelet Pianissimo User

    Oct 13, 2007
    charleston, sc
    I'm not sure how this discussion started being about abdominal muscles, I thought it was about endurance. Whose abs get tired from playing trumpet? Not mine. My face sure does.
  8. Master Trumpetissimo

    Master Trumpetissimo New Friend

    Jan 10, 2008
    My abs used to hurt- before I got on a MAJOR weight/ab training program.

    Now they don't even burn.

    10-pack baby! :)
  9. jazz9

    jazz9 Piano User

    Dec 5, 2007
    Chilhowie, VA
    I don't know how this whole abdominal thing got started, but I'm pretty sure I don't use my abs to play. I just need to know how to practice to play longer and higher. I do, however, believe that if your lungs are in good shape from running or whatever, you can play better. At least, it can't hurt.
  10. mrmusicnotes

    mrmusicnotes Piano User

    Nov 11, 2007
    actually,the diaphram comes into play when we BREATH IN (inspiration).On inspiration the dome shaped muscle "the diaphram" moves downward not inward and increases the volume of air in the thorax or the cavity in which the heart and lungs lie. Expiration is solely supported by the stomach muscles.So when one talks about support from the diaphram, they really mean support from the stomach muscles.I think a strong core is definitely a plus when it comes to endurance.Also someone mentioned swimming and running on a earlier post,these are activies that build lung capacity and endurance.There are dozens of breathing gadets for wind players designed to do the same thing.That alone says something about the importance of being aerobically fit.Sorry if you think I sound like Jack Lalane but i am one of the lucky ones who actually loves to stay fit and enjoys working out.I dont expect all to agree unless you have walked the walk.I know my playing has benefitted from it emencely.This is just my opinion,and isn't that what this forum is all about?Its not about who is right or wrong,or who knows more.Its about sharing ones experiences playing this remarkable instrument.

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