Enrico's ideas

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Enrico, Dec 14, 2003.

  1. MSfortissimo

    MSfortissimo Pianissimo User

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    Enrico hasn't signed in in six years

    100th post
     
    codyb226 likes this.
  2. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

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    Exactly my point as to why we need to send Kingtrumpet back in time to link up to the dude, since KT seems so hell-bent on getting a message out to him that his post was read and is cool!
     
  3. Local 357

    Local 357 Banned

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    Really all depends upon whether you're getting good theory or bad theory. I've seen little good theory on the 'net. Even by some well established teachers. Most the advice I've seen on physical measures is invalid. The proponents act as if physical law did not apply to someone who picks up a trumpet.

    So in a way I kind of agree with you: Since the great preponderance of advice conflicts with physical law? Then most of it is invalid.

    But on the other hand once physical law is applied to the mechanics of playing the trumpet? The student is sure to succeed in playing the instrument well. And at a dramatically improved rate of progress.

    So it isn't that internet advice is unable to be utilized. It is that it is inaccurate and ineffective because it does not reflect physical possibilities.

    My advice will (to the best of my knowledge) ALWAYS apply useful physical law. It can never harm you.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2012
  4. Ed Lee

    Ed Lee Utimate User

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    It may not be necessary to go back in time as the man may be still alive. Too, I can imagine KT would enjoy looking all over Italy to find him if others are paying the expenses of doing so. Were I to have the health even I would. Of course, KT may want to rent a Ferrari to attract the chicks, but I don't think such a vehicle is practical in Italian traffic.

    While I believe Enrico made just a bold statement as is fundamental to all musicians, it would have just been a courtesy for other TM members just to acknowledge his statement as I did.
     
  5. Ed Lee

    Ed Lee Utimate User

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    I can't agree. If one were only to read Wikipedia which I won't quote, therein is written pros and cons about "physical law".

    It is my opinion that many instrumental musicians perform mechanically with accuracy to the composed music, and to a greater extent than I would like to admit I am among them and I attribute such to the perils of sight reading music.

    Such is relatively easy to teach and a student to learn but the consequence is a result comparable to the computerized programming of an automaton as can be replicated ad infinitum.

    I can't say that sight reading is entirely bad, but it is only the dive board for the diver to display his own skills. When I speak my voice is discernable from all others and such is the objective goal of all musicians. No I don't want to accurately emulate any other, but to give voice to my musical instrument that is mine alone. To do this, I may have to provide a variable arrrangement of a prior composed work that encompasses my interpretation, or to prepare my own composition. To some extent a conductor interprets the composition as he/she directs the orchestra and has the option of providing a re-write of the composition in some part or the entirety.

    A few musicians will attain fame, but most will not. There isn't a subject of study where this isn't true. That's the lottery of life.
     
  6. Local 357

    Local 357 Banned

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    Gonna take a few exceprts from this post an use an analogy to dispute this idea. Let's say we had two long distance runners of equal age, size and no deficient physical or medical problems.

    One runs normally.

    The other runs on the heels of his feet.

    Of course the first one excels and runs well enough. OK he probably isn't an Olympic finalist but maybe he qualifies and places in a few city wide meets along the way. Assuming he perseveres and is willing to do the work.

    However the second man never gets off the ground. By running on his heels he can barely run a couple miles per week. All the while guy number 1 is running marathons. From No. 2's view the other man is "gifted" and he is not. We of course would look at him as silly. "Why doesn't he just run closer to the toes of his feet"? We'd think.

    Yet THIS is the way most learning amateur trumpet players play their instrument. The main difference is that the runner who runs on his heels problem is very obvious. Instead the trumpet player getting poor results can not see his problem. So he FIGHTS PHYSICAL law and continues to fail and fail. Worse still his teachers and peers (Who also can not see his problem) offer him USELESS advice. they say things like

    "Use more top lip"

    "Use more bottom lip"

    "Faster air"

    "Tongue arch".

    The above pieces of generally useless advice fall into the category of advising our heel running wannabe track and field athlete to: "Wear softer running shoes". "Take up Yoga". Eat square meals and take vitamin supplements".

    See?
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2012
  7. Ed Lee

    Ed Lee Utimate User

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    First, as I am not a board certified medical doctor accredited in podiatry, I'll make no comparison between runners. That said, it sorta seems prejudical toward a disadvantaged runner. As I once ran track in high school and regular 5 and 10Ks during my active LEO career and now suffering with PAD and claudication in my legs, it takes me as great or greater perseverance now just to walk 4 miles unassisted.

    However, I too don't tell my trumpet students anything like you set as examples. As to the lips such is acceptable with anything that works for the student and there are just so many variables of facial and lip structure that no teacher I know of could accurately discern which would be more viable towards improving performance. "Faster Air" and "Tongue arch" too just aren't understandable to a student simply by command and weren't ever mentioned to me in any instruction I received in public schooling or college the latter to achieve a minor in instrumental music. The only place I've encountered either is in some of the books I've read on my own and then such were poorly put forth IMO. Faster air I believe comes naturally to achieve what you want to sound like. Again, Tongue Arch is replete with so much variance from person to person anyone who espouses what is correct and what is not to achieve improvement in my sound ain't gonna get my money to study with. Too, never did I see any reference to the effects of full upper dentures on tongue arch. Too, physical growth is never adequately factored in tongue arch. My question is what is the problem when full chromatic range of sound is achieved without concern of tongue arch. Yep, all the functional elements of performance eventually become of so little concern when achieved that they do seem natural and there are no short cuts to establish such whereas they are built on experience and constant practice ... the brick and mortar of life.
     
  8. Peter McNeill

    Peter McNeill Utimate User

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    [​IMG]
     
  9. Peter McNeill

    Peter McNeill Utimate User

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    For Ed........
    [​IMG]

    For Me........[​IMG]
     
  10. Local 357

    Local 357 Banned

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    What you're saying is in brief:

    The physics of playing of the trumpet is a matter that is not understandable".

    The whole history of human understanding and expansion of and development of knowledge says otherwise. Essentially what we have is bad science in our method books. Books that claim a "scientific approach" and then make assertions that would VIOLATE physical law. Nothing can do that of course. And this is the reason for so many FAILED and failing approaches.

    Donald Reinhart's books while somewhat noteworthy do not accurately apply physical law. Even while promoted as "scientific based".

    Carmine Caruso system is even worse. It would have every runner continue running on his heels but to use a metronome while he jogs.

    See? Silliness.
     

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