F. Perez have Question for you about valves???

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by lovevixen555, Feb 5, 2009.

  1. lovevixen555

    lovevixen555 Banned

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    I under stand that you have a guy working on casting technique for valves??? Have you ever considered high grade ceramics like those used by Boker Knives and like the ones Toyota used to build working engines from? High end ceramics can be made almost as hard and well wearing as a diamond. The only down side is that they are brittle if droped but how often do valves on high end trumpets get droped. Ceraics are easy to work with and easy to cast and machine. They wear better then steel in many case's.

    I have considered useing a multi-axis milling machine and high end steel and sumple machine the valves on a lathe and multi-axis milling machine. It would be easy to do since you wouldnot need to make and form air port's that are brazed in like on conventional valves.

    As for casting steel the bigest trick is makeing sure the temp. at the pour point is the same as it was at the Copala. If the steel turns orange before it is poured then it will not turn out well. Transducers can be used on the outside of the mold to help get ride of pocket's but you need to have an area at the top of the mold that is like an empty cavity that will need to be trimed later. This empty cavity gives the air a place to go. Ihad to fix some issues with GM's brakes a few years ago and it was foundry related. I would also suggest thatyou have a look at investment casting. The initial cost is higher but it will produce parts that are very easy to make uniform and it will elimanate any possable chance for air bubles. Invest ment casting is used to make carberator bodies and gun part's like recievers and bolt's asin bolt action not as in retainers. It isnot as strong as forgeing but itis a lot less energy intensive.

    If machine cost's are an issue with multi-axis cutting of high grade steel then use copper or bronze and then plate the part with nickle silver. You can remove excessive material from it to lighten after the initial machine of the ports is done.

    Just some idea's from someone that has been heavily involved with manufactureing in the auto industry and a little bit in the aviation industry.
     
  2. Gaucho Viejo

    Gaucho Viejo Pianissimo User

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    This sounds like, maybe, a viable idea to develop. It seems logical enough, as you describe it, such that I wonder if someone like Getzen or Bauerfiend hasn't already explored this possibility and run afoul of some obstacle. I wouldn't assume that's the case, though; you should make some discreet inquiries of people "in the know" and maybe develop a mock-up or model to present to someone in the industry. Interesting ideas.

    I would suggest you get someone else to write your "patent description" materials for you - your spelling is atrocious. You seem like a pleasant enough son of a gun, however.
     
  3. lovevixen555

    lovevixen555 Banned

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    I know my problem is I type over 200 words a minute but I make a lot of spelling errors. At work and at school I always would take time to go back and fix this! I should have taken the time with you as well as you have been great help to me. While I normally do not care what most think of my sloppy attention to spelling your opinion does matter and I apologize for making you work so hard to read what I wrote. Please accept my humble apology. I think you find that when I email you I always spell check first. I am very sorry.

    I would doubt that many companies in the industry would have researched much along these lines. For the most part I have noticed that few companies in the music world seem interested in blazing new trails. Even though high end models costing in excess of $4000 are often copies of other well know high end models that where made by companies that are no longer around. Sure they use thicker material here and their or heavy bracing but 99% of their design was worked out long ago by another craftsman. Their are actually few choices for valve materials then their where 50 years ago.

    For the most part many things have been made simpler and less sophisticated. Look at cornet wraps. Looking on eBay one finds all kinds of crazy and wild ways of wrapping a cornet's pipes. Today you mostly see one type of wrap used by almost all manufactures and if you are lucky every now and again you see a Shepard’s crook tossed in!

    P.S. I spell checked this post! You know I would love to work in the instrumnet manufactureing world but I doubt my automotive and aero-space back ground would count for much!
     
  4. Gaucho Viejo

    Gaucho Viejo Pianissimo User

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    It's so hard, in an electronic format, to tell if someone is being light heartedly sarcastic or sardonic. In person I (far too often) use cast off remarks followed by a facial expression or a smirk that lets you know I'm kidding - can't do that here. That, compounded by the reality that you do take some heat for your writing style, seems to have led to your feelings being hurt; not my intent at all. I really think your idea has some merit. I'm not really bothered by your writing style - just teasin'. Sorry if I've added to your daily grief. Please don't stop floating your ideas out there - one of these days you'll come up with the "perfect mouse trap".

    Tim
     
  5. Brekelefuw

    Brekelefuw Fortissimo User

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    The world's fastest typist is 212 wpm. Barbara Blackburn, the World's Fastest Typist I doubt you get to 200.
     
  6. Gaucho Viejo

    Gaucho Viejo Pianissimo User

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    I'm surprised by 212 wpm being the "world's fastest"; my father taught business and finance at a university here in the northwest US in the late 1930s and I was told he, routinely, could type with only a minimum of errors (if any) at around 200 (not an electric typewriter). He was quite a character. In the "old days" accountants would "run a tape" on their "adding machine" and then run a second tape to confirm the number they had gotten was correct. Dad just had two adding machines on his desk and would run two tapes simultaneously with his right and left hands - this I watched him do many times with no difference in outcome. He was also, perhaps, the wittiest and most charming man I have ever had the pleasure to have known (played a mean piccolo, too, in the Army-Air Force Band). I miss that old coot.
     
  7. Brekelefuw

    Brekelefuw Fortissimo User

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    Back in those days the typewriters used to be in alphabetical order. People about type so fast the letters got all jammed up so they mixed the letters up and came up with todays qwerty configuration. It was an attempt to slow people down.

    Did you know typewriter is the longest word you can type on one line of the qwerty keyboard?
     
  8. daniel starz

    daniel starz Piano User

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    Jan 11, 2009
    wasilla alaska
    very interesting information about the valves , but what about the weight ?
    would they be to light or just really fast ? light and fast is good ?
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2009
  9. Dave Mickley

    Dave Mickley Forte User

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    love - as a past machinst and machine repairman I like the idea of using ceramics. I think a viable solution would to make the liner and the piston out of ceramic. It would be easier just to make the liner and then use an adhesive to place it correctly in the valve body. I doubt that just dropping the horn or even dropping the piston would hurt the ceramic [it is pretty tough]. Good idea now all it takes to make it work is Time and Money.
     
  10. veery715

    veery715 Utimate User

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    Ithaca NY
    Sorry, despite owning dozens of valves, I am moved to go off-topic.

    My university-professor Dad also typed a blue streak, and with versatility - calculus texts authored by my mother he did on his IBM selectric and all the publisher had to do was photograph it. AND he played the piccolo too! Witty and charming - absolutely!
    veery

    This is not a criticism, but even those of us ADPs (average daily people) benefit when you take the time to clean up the spelling in your posts. It makes reading much easier - especially when you run words together as that interferes with the pattern recognition we use for reading.
    "Ycu cen raed tbis buciase yau uxe pa11urn rocagnilson".

    And, believe it or not, you are actually more credible when your posts are well-written. What I mean is that it's hard, after struggling through several of your hastily-written paragraphs, to take you seriously, which I know is what you want.:cool:
    veery
     

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