Farkas problem

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by chet fan, Aug 6, 2009.

  1. chet fan

    chet fan Piano User

    Jul 3, 2009
    Hi I have been reading the text about farkas embochure and came across this and that disturbed me a bit, can someone explain what the author of the text was writing about. thank you

    The Farkas problem
    If playing with a neutral or bunched chin, the center of the lower lip is supported by the chin muscles. This assists in closing the aperture.

    But the Farkas method recommends a taut chin, as used by horn players. While this seems to work fine with the French horn, trumpet players doing this sometimes end up with severe trouble. The taut chin pulls the center of the lower lip downwards, opening the aperture. This is counter productive to the efficiency principle, and should therefore be avoided.

    (There are many horror stories about trumpet players, having ruined themselves this way.)
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2009
  2. Bear

    Bear Forte User

    Apr 30, 2004
    Think of "neutral or bunched chin" as a pucker embouchure.
    Think of "taut chin" as a smiling embouchure.
    Think again of the statements in the Farkas book and maybe it will help clear some things up.

    People will be able to help you better if you have a specific qustion. What disturbs you about the writing?

    Don't read just that one book on embouchures, check out others and figure out the discrepancies in them.

    Better yet, go get a french horn, learn the doubles (horn/bone...sometimes tuba) and your eyes will open up!

    Last edited: Aug 6, 2009
  3. mrtrpt

    mrtrpt New Friend

    Sep 23, 2007
    stop reading that book.....
  4. Veldkamp

    Veldkamp Piano User

    Mar 29, 2004
    the Netherlands

    There's a lot of bs in BE in my opinion. This quote is one of them because the writer is looking for the wrong causes. Embouchure problems are often the result of bigger problems like bad support or no mental soundconcept. So when you start fixing the real problems, the embouchure will function much better as a result of that.
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2009
  5. Bob Grier

    Bob Grier Forte User

    May 4, 2007
    Greensboro, NC
    I agree with both of you about BE. Plus Farkas never talked about a taut chin, he talked about a flat chin which is very different. Some players have a flat chin, some have a bunched chin. Both work very well. It depends on the NATURAL setting of the chin. To try and force the chin to be one or the other is inviting disaster.
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2009
  6. s.coomer

    s.coomer Forte User

    Mar 25, 2005
    Indianapolis, In
    I agree with what Bob Grier said wholeheartedly. Why are you into the book? Do you think that you have an embouchure problem? If so find a good teacher and let him work with you. No one here can give you embouchure advice without seeing and hearing you play.
  7. Vulgano Brother

    Vulgano Brother Moderator Staff Member

    Mar 23, 2006
    Parts Unknown
    Don't forget that Farkas did his research and photos during the heyday of the Chicago Symphony Orchestra. He didn't grab guys off the the street that were promising a DHC, he went after guys who could play, and he observed and made his recommendations based on the finest chops around.

    The common thread he found wasn't the chin, but the aperture, which looks like an oboe reed's insides, from trumpet down to tuba.

    To imply that what Farkas observed is bad science is bad science itself, without good science to back it up.

    Vulgani are open to science and voodoo, so long as folk can back their statements up. Farkas can.
  8. chet fan

    chet fan Piano User

    Jul 3, 2009
    hi guys, thamk you all for your replys

    I am not having any specific embochure problems I am just reading stuff about trumpet playing because I am begginer and I want to read as much as I can.
    What disturbed me is that allegedly horror stories about players who ruined themselves because something happened to their lower lip, I assumed it is BS but I felt the need to ask someone with more experience than me, what is this all about.

    Regarding my embochure I am blowing through closed lips opening them a bit for fatter sound and using thongue for higher register with a bit of pucker. For the lower register I put more lips inside the mouthpiece, so I am using a bit of everything.

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