fast air

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by fels, Jul 18, 2008.

  1. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 18, 2006
    there are several "lead techniques". Erik Veldkamp has spoken about his "wedge" technique and there are other players also turned on by this successful method. It is a more "physical" way of breathing/playing. That is why the universal relaxed is perhaps not universal.

    I learned something a while back that I would like to share here. The diaphragm is there for the INTAKE of air. It has no possibility to "push" air.

    Check this picture out and you will see why:
    Diaphragm Breathing

    The diaphragm contracts to draw air in and relaxes to let the lungs release air. If you are "pushing" it ain't the diaphragm!
  2. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 18, 2006
    Point taken.

    If fels wants high chops, visualizations will not replace cold hard practice. I use long tones, lip slurs and Clarke (all played pianissimo) up an octave to build range, for myself and my students. The breathing stuff, my "circle of breath" is the prerequisite. Nothing else required!
  3. hubnub

    hubnub Piano User

    May 4, 2007
    Cleveland, OH
    I think along the same way but conceptualize water through a garden hose. When the hose is on and the water flows through, it tends to just flow at the rate of pressure set by the diameter of the hose..... wide and thick. Then if you take your finger and start to close off the open end, the "speed" of the water increases due to the fact your are putting the same volume of water through a space (or appiture) that is now smaller, thus "speeding" up the flow....

    It helps me and my students:thumbsup:
  4. hubnub

    hubnub Piano User

    May 4, 2007
    Cleveland, OH

    Greg, Thanks for mentioning this, I tried this for awhile and it helped me. Craig Johnson showed me the concept
  5. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 18, 2006
    I used to think of it that way too, what is missing is the mouthpiece in front of your thumb. The throat (and impedance of the mouthpiece/horn)will be the factor that brings the speed back to fairly "constant".

    My only point is that speed=more body energy=less relaxed=less range.
    That is why I am so insistant on RELAXED. You simply solve more than by adding tension somewhere.
  6. hubnub

    hubnub Piano User

    May 4, 2007
    Cleveland, OH


    Point well taken! Relaxation is key. Equipment is a big factor as well. I'm not trying to contradict myself, but this visualization along with staying relaxed helps ME. I have read in great depth (more so now that I've been playing Monette Equipment i.e. the mpc manual) about being relaxed and the benefits of how that effects playing. I remember a while back in a Master Class some one mentioned Charles Schluter talking about "More air = Less work, Less air = more work". For some reason for me, the visualization I get from this [garden hose analogy], helps me with the "more air" part of it.

    It's one way of thinking, and that's all. For me if I can keep that mental image of the hose being my throat and it needing to stay that open to stay relaxed, I feel relaxed.... therefore adding one less thing to the equation, so I can focus on tongue levels and compression. As long as I keep in mind what Schulter said, I can maintain that relaxation. Some of my students get it like I do, some don't.;-)
  7. Veldkamp

    Veldkamp Piano User

    Mar 29, 2004
    the Netherlands
    I use the wedge (or something like it) because it gives me the sound I want (more sizzle), but can easily breath low like a classical player and play the same high notes. They just sound broader. I alter my breathing depending on the style of music.

    If you want to play high notes you have to get a strong embouchure by doing exercises in the higher register with the sound you like. Don't force anything, take a pause when you're tired and let the chops recover.

    I like this article of Maynard:
  8. kalijah

    kalijah New Friend

    May 5, 2008
    Fast air...


    A popular term in trumpet circles. Many use the verbage few really know what they are trying to describe, if anything.

    Some say "speed" but mean pressure. Some say "speed" but mean flow.

    Many just repeat it because it is oft repeated and therfore they repeat is as to sound "knowledgable".

    Ask them what, exactly, was the speed they measured and you will never get an answer.

    It is also quite obvious that speed can vary over a constant pitch as one changes loudness so there is obviously no actual correlation.

    If one engages in "visualizing" air speed by; 1. making a smaller aperture, and 2. increasing air pressure

    (#2 is actually all that will change the speed thru an aperture)

    then #1 is what causes a change in frequency and #2 is what is required to maintain flow (and desired sound voulme) due to a smaller aperture.

    Other than a visualization , actual air speed does not matter, only frequency, pressure and (resulting) flow is of any importance.

    As for the garden hose, there is little relation to the trumpet system.

    The change in pressure (and resulting velocity) is due to the supply hose and the change in flow due to the higher resistance at the smaller opening.

    It is NOT the "same flow" thru a smaller opening.

    The trumpet aperture is sufficiently resistive for the lung pressure to exist at the embouchure so simply making the aperture smaller does not make the air thru it faster.

    Arching the tonge does not increase the air speed thru the aperture, nor does it "compress" the air.

    Tongue movements are related to embouchure formation and manipulation, not air-flow.

    Again air "speed" is an excercise in visualization that helps some players acheive certain muscular actions.

    But be careful, to much air speed WILL reduce efficiency.
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2008
  9. nordlandstrompet

    nordlandstrompet Forte User

    Apr 5, 2008
    Aaaaah! HA!

    My favorite subject: Air speed...[​IMG]

    High lung pressure / small aperture = high air speed through the aperture
    High lung pressure / medium aperture = lower air speed through the aperture
    High lung pressure / large aperture = low air speed through the aperture

    etc etc etc


    The venturi effect of course!

    The same effect occurs in the rivers when the water comes to a narrower point,
    but in the river, the amount of water will make/give the "lung pressure".

    As I have argued in earlier threads, the air speed will be at the fastest at the
    aperture, second fastest in the throat of the mpc, same speed through the
    tubings and valves and slows down the closer it comes to the bell.

    This will be the fasit of all brass WIND! instruments:

    The fast air everybody talks about, is the air speed through the aperture,
    and NOT through the horn![​IMG]
  10. B15M

    B15M Forte User

    Dec 30, 2003
    Monroe Ct.
    If you have a fixed whole size, regardless how much pressure you put, only so much air can fit through.

    Kink the hose, less water comes out. When the river gets narrow and the water gets faster; doesn't the water get deeper?

    Get a mouthpiece with a tiny whole, does it only play high notes? (joke)

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