Fingers

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Tootsall, Oct 12, 2004.

  1. Tootsall

    Tootsall Fortissimo User

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    Oct 25, 2003
    Yee HAW!
    OK you experts. We've got this wee piece of music in community band, see? And the directions call for it to be played at 1/4 = 180. Well, that's just fine. The problem is the attached section (right at the end). Once I start getting up around 130 or 140, my fingers end up tied in knots and I can't get the darn thing to come out clean.

    What IS the secret (if anything) to really fast fingering with some rather strange accidentals at speed?

    Note that I have cropped the scan severely so as not to violate any copyright laws.

    [​IMG]


    If it helps, I'm in the process of working my way through Clodomir's 70 Little Studies (although I suspect that work is mainly for note accuracy than shear fingering speed).

    Thanks in advance for all constructive suggestions or advice.

    Edit: oops, sorry about the size of the scan.... there, it's resized.
     
  2. uatrmpt

    uatrmpt Piano User

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    Nov 29, 2003
    AL
    Is that "Windsprints" by Richard Saucedo? If it is, I just played it on a concert this past Thursday. We played the runs as more of an effect than actual distinct notes. In other words, for a two minute encore at the end of a two hour concert, we weren't going to put forth that kind of effort. Hope this helps.
     
  3. MUSICandCHARACTER

    MUSICandCHARACTER Forte User

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    Jan 31, 2004
    Newburgh, Indiana
    Is that in 9/8? And with all those G# and A#'s. No wonder your fingers get tied up.

    I have always tried to memorize such passages and then just play them. Your brain tends to foul you up when you see notes you are not used to seeing. It seems if I memorize it, and don't look at it, I can play it.

    Maybe that will help. It always works for me when I play valves (I don't even want to think in slide positions, ugh).

    Jim
     
  4. uatrmpt

    uatrmpt Piano User

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    Nov 29, 2003
    AL
    If it's the piece I stated above, it's in 3/4 but played in 1.
     
  5. MUSICandCHARACTER

    MUSICandCHARACTER Forte User

    1,140
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    Jan 31, 2004
    Newburgh, Indiana
    Even worse :shock:

    Jim
     
  6. trickg

    trickg Utimate User

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    Baltimore/DC
    Toots, in the past there are two things that I have done to work out a passage like that to get it up to speed.

    1.) Just work it, slow at first, methodical. Take it VERY slowly at first and work toward getting it faster and faster. Repitition is the key here. Over and over and over and over and over and......you get the picture. Just continue to work it and eventually your fingers will follow the pattern automatically - so much so that now, years after I have played certain tunes, I can still play some difficult passages even without the music in front of me.

    2.) This one may sound a bit odd, but you have to try it to believe it. Try the same method as #1 above, only do it left handed. Work it and work it left handed until you are getting it, then switch back to the right. It's amazing how much better and easier it will be once you switch back to your right hand.

    That's the best I can offer.
     
  7. Tootsall

    Tootsall Fortissimo User

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    Oct 25, 2003
    Yee HAW!
    Thanks everyone for the constructive advice. Yes, it is Windsprints, 2nd part. And yes, it is 3/4 conducted in 1.

    I have actually tried the left-hand method. I was sort of surprised that it really wasn't all that bad (as long as I kept the tempo at about 1/2 speed!). I know that I have to just "go on autopilot"... my problem is that my fingers keep flying off and hitting me in the face! haha.

    Oh well, nobody else except possibly the flutes can play it at that speed neither so maybe he'll cut it back.

    Jim, thanks for the comment... I've been wondering how to get the horn to "speak clearly" on each note.... you are right.. it comes out more as a blur than anything else.

    sigh... back to the 'shed.
     
  8. trickg

    trickg Utimate User

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    Oct 26, 2003
    Baltimore/DC
    Toots, in reference to getting the notes to "speak" cleanly on a fast slurred passage, I've always found if you push a little more air and your fingers are pounding the valves through the passage, that each note will "pop" a little. A great example of this is on some of Wynton's Classical and Baroque recordings. When he's ripping through some of those passages it almost sounds like he's tonguing everything. This happens much easier on the smaller horns, but you can get it to work on Bb as well. If your chops and air are working efficiently, it will happen.

    A good way to practice that is to just play fast chromatic scales, focusing on pounding the valves and pushing the air.

    That's what I do anyway.
     
  9. W Scott

    W Scott Piano User

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    Dec 8, 2003
    Carson City, NV.
    Hey Ed,
    180 is just about a train wreck for a band on a run like that! My band has several pieces with fast runs around 130/140----such as the final run of 'In the Mood' or 'Buglers' Holiday'.

    Do you have any of Charles Colins' books? What I do is take his alternate fingerings and figure out a fingering pattern that will make the run work for me.

    Bill
     
  10. pangaea

    pangaea Pianissimo User

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    Nov 10, 2003
    Trickg is exactly right. It's all about muscle memory and wiring the neural pathways in your brain. Do the tough licks slowly, and repeat a million times. The left-hand thing really, really works. It's an old John McNeil thing...has to do with burning new pathways in the brain.

    Also, John McNeil's Jazz Improv book has a bunch of great, tricky finger-twisters.
     

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