Flat rim VS round rim

Discussion in 'Mouthpieces / Mutes / Other' started by kdawg, Dec 14, 2003.

  1. kdawg

    kdawg New Friend

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    Nov 19, 2003
    What do you all think about rims???
    I prefer a semi-flat rim. Schilke 13a4 rim is just about perfect. My holbert mouthpiece rim is absolutely perfect. I like the added endurance and the better comfort i get. GR's standard rims were too round, same w/ Curry's. When i put the GR to my face my first thought was "A little narrow"
    What're your experiences???
     
  2. Tootsall

    Tootsall Fortissimo User

    4,529
    8
    Oct 25, 2003
    Yee HAW!
    My experience is that everybody is different in what feels comfortable to them, what kind of "control" issues they have, what size (diameter, rim width) of piece they play on, etc.

    The secret is to go out there and test a bunch, analyze what you are sounding like and feeling like, and let that be your guide to what you should actually USE.

    I recommend buying used from Ebay during this safari...which should not be conducted until you (and your teacher) are skilled and ready enough to make an accurate analysis of what is happening. (and remember that although the rim shape might stay the same, the backbore and throat might need to be changed when you change horns so that you can stay "in balance").

    Personal "safari" over the 6 years as an adult beginner (and in order):

    Bach 7C
    Bach 5C
    Bach 3C
    Wick 3
    Wick 4B
    Laskey 50B
    Warburton 4MC/B9
    GR 66***.

    anybody want to buy a Warburton 4MC, 4D, 3M top and/or B9 bottom? Or perhaps a Wick 4B gold plated? The safari has been over for a year now.
     
  3. dcstep

    dcstep Mezzo Piano User

    684
    3
    Nov 27, 2003
    Denver
    I find 3Cers in the GR fraternity that consider a 66 to be the equivalent to a 3C, while others think that either the 65 or 67 is just right. Those are small differences, but it really gets down to feel. If you thought a 66 was a little two narrow, then the 67 may be the ticket.

    If you're speaking only as to the rim contour (I think that the two parameters need to be considered together), then the *** or some of the other Signature pieces might be more to your liking.

    Personally, I like the bite of the stock GR rim combined with the slipperyness of gold plate.

    Dave
     
  4. Jon Arnold

    Jon Arnold New Friend

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    Jan 18, 2004
    Ohio
    I like the rim of the Warburton 4M. I played a 3c for most of my playing carreer. I just bought a GR 3MS. I had a 66MS, but didn't like the bite on the rim. Mouthpieces are such a personal preference. You just have to try some and experiment until you find the sound and feel that is appropriate for you.
     
  5. Lawler Bb

    Lawler Bb Piano User

    425
    65
    Oct 25, 2003
    Milwaukee, WI
    I find the standard GR rim to be to narrow and rounded. I much prefer the rim on my Laskey 80C. The Haefner 1HX rim is decent, but almost too wide and flat. It has taken me at least 2 years to find a rim I can deal with after switching from a Monette B12/C12.
     
  6. FlugelFlyer

    FlugelFlyer Piano User

    311
    1
    Dec 15, 2003
    Palos Park, IL
    I prefer the rim everyone hates, the jagged one with the saw-teeth that will tear apart any trumpeter's lips, the rim you could break an egg or a diamond on it's so sharp, the rim of my large-lettered Bach 7C. It's the rim that forces me to play with the least pressure and use the most embouchure strength and greatest airstream. As a result, I generally sound the best on that mouthpiece.
     
  7. DaveH

    DaveH Piano User

    335
    87
    Nov 27, 2003
    I'm not sure what I reacting to, but I have played both the Bach 3C and the Schilke 13C4. After concluding that these aren't really very "comparable" like some mouthpiece comparison charts suggest, I find the 3C to be the best. The 13C4 feels smaller, gives less flexibility, and more limited and a less bright tone.

    I'm not sure if it's differences in the rim, or the diameter, or the cup, or all the above, but tone, flexibility, and comfort are far superior for me on a 3C.

    I would say that I prefer a rim with the sharp, but not too sharp, inner edge of the standard Bach 3C; i.e., some amount of sharpness, but not as sharp as the 7C. And I prefer the 3C cup shape and depth better than Schilke.

    There is "comfort" on a 1 1/2C on which I can hardly feel any inner edge at all. While it feels comfortable, I do not feel the security of execution that the presence of an inner edge provides. Gives too "vague" of a feeling.

    I prefer a rim like a Bach 3C...
     
  8. Tootsall

    Tootsall Fortissimo User

    4,529
    8
    Oct 25, 2003
    Yee HAW!
    I was concerned about exactly the same element that I see in the previous three or four posts... that the rim would be too rounded and result in a fatigue problem (you will notice I had tried Dennis Wick so you know what I mean). Bruce recommended the 66*** which, if you read the description on his NorthernBrass page about the "customs" was designed for Gary's own chops which required a slightly more comfortable, flatter rim but with the "alpha angle" modified to accomodate while still giving control.

    Now...I don't know about the 'numbers', but I sure do like it! My range is increasing (increasing upwards while getting more full "in the basement"), and the sound I get is just what I want. If I want to make the Schilke sound "almost" like the Eterna cornet by "thinking cornet sounds", it does it. If I want it to be "just plain smooth"...it does that too. And if I want some "bite" to the sound, it's there. The beauty is that it does all these things so I have long since stopped carrying two different mouthpieces and switching depending upon the music we're playing.... sure simplifies life, makes me stop blaming the mouthpiece and lets me concentrate on the music!
     
  9. musicalmason

    musicalmason Forte User

    1,105
    673
    Dec 14, 2003
    Pa
    Ive been playing on a 3c forever and Ive been thinking about switching to gr I filled out the questionare and was recommended a 66*** or 66** I was thinking about trying them both but I'm afraid of the "lag time" it takes to get used to a new mouthpiece, even if I'll like it better in the end. does it normally take long to get used to a gr?
     
  10. Tootsall

    Tootsall Fortissimo User

    4,529
    8
    Oct 25, 2003
    Yee HAW!
    Fair question. There will be the usual honeymoon period. That lasts for an hour? or maybe two? Then the differences will start to "soak in"...I'd give it a day or two at the most! After that it's all downhill sliding. Now then... you may NOT experience the same things that I did or you may perceive them differently. (isn't that always the caveate with mouthpieces?) What I would do is, as you say, fill out the questionaire and send it to Bruce Lee. Add any "extraneous" information like... do you tend to go flat in the high register? Do you have trouble getting the low register to "speak" quickly and clearly? Then ask him what (if any) chat program he uses and arrange to "meet him" there and discuss the situation "real time". You could do that with TM "Chat". Or you might even phone him...he's pretty good that way.

    After a month or two, share your experiences with us, good or bad!
     

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