Flugel outfitting

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by eisprl, Apr 16, 2005.

  1. eisprl

    eisprl Mezzo Piano User

    Age:
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    Sep 26, 2004
    Halifax, NS CANADA
    Good evening everyone,

    So I was thinking. After I finish my degree, I really want to go on and do some jazz studying (diploma or whatever). Soooooo, I was kind of half thinking of getting a flugel over this summer so that I can spend the better part of my last year (2005 / 06) at school getting used to it.

    So what I need from you guys are probably the same ol' questions you always get. :oops:

    Any suggestions on names, models, prices would be great (please indicate American or Canadian). Also, any opinions of horns would help out alot.

    And of course, the Mouthpiece. I really don't know how to fit mysef for one. Should I have the same specifications as my normal Bb piece?

    I will be in Ottawa for the entire summer starting next tuesday, so if anyone can give me some names of stores....


    I am Honestly a flugel horn virgin. I have never owned one or know how one should 'properly' be played. So any advice on the flugel that you folks can give, I'll love to hear it.

    Yours
    Eric S.
     
  2. camelbrass

    camelbrass Mezzo Forte User

    841
    4
    Nov 5, 2003
    Dubai, UAE
    Eric,

    Where to start?

    Mouthpieces-generally the common consencus is that it's better, particularly if you intend to double, to have the same (or similar) rims for both. Flugels are all about sound and deep cups/large bores are a must. Be careful as there are 3 different mouthpiece tapers so the mouthpiece that fits one won't fit another.


    Horns-Broadly there are 3 types:
    1. Small Bore (409-421) Kanstul, Bach, Eclipse, Taylor, New Getzen, old Cousenon (Queenies), Wild Thing
    2. In between 430-440 Yamaha, Lawler
    3. Larger 453-460 Older Getzen, Olds, Old Benges

    Don't equate these as strictly as you would view a trumpet's bore size...in this case bore size really is irrelevant. Some of the smaller bore flugels are very easy to play despite the numbers.

    OK Price:How deep are your pockets? Rough prices in US$
    Taylor and Eclipse at the top $3,000-3,500)
    Wild Thing $2500+
    Lawler $2000-$2,500
    Kanstul and Bach $1500-2000
    New Getzen in here somewhere (I guess)
    Yamaha $1200-1700
    A good old Quennie who knows-probably +$1000
    Older Benges $800 ish
    Older Getzens $600 ish

    The more expensive flugels have intonation and response that is as good as most trumpets. Some of the older ones are a bit 'squirrely'. However, I'll repeat it I think a flugel is all about sound..OK you don't want to wrestle the thing but one that sound great and is in tune is a diamond.

    Jupiter and Weril make cheaper flugels that are reasonable for $600-$700 that are essentially very much like the lower model Yamahas and lots of players find that these are more than enough.

    I find that when I play flugel I throw an internal 'switch' and try not to even think about trumpet. I don't 'hear' trumpet, I have a definite idea of what I want to sound like on a flugel and that's very different from a trumpet. Don't try 'loud' or 'strident', think 'light' and 'velvety'. Playing flugel with a trumpet sound concept won't work...neither will pumping it full of air...it's just not the point and won't work, let the horn do the work.

    Look that's really just a start. If there are any other questions raise them...I'm sure that this will be added to/corrected.

    Regards,

    Trevor
     
  3. davidjohnson

    davidjohnson Piano User

    366
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    Nov 2, 2003
    arkansas
    i've considered buying a jupiter myself.

    dj
     
  4. Jimi Michiel

    Jimi Michiel Forte User

    Age:
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    Mar 22, 2005
    Boston
    I have a student Yamaha. I'm not sure about the model number, but it's the lowest priced one. I got it about 6 or 7 years ago for about 600 US. It's been great, although I should get around to putting triggers on it... I would try to get whatever mouthpiece you normally get, but with a deeper cup. I'm sure Dave Monette could hook you up (I use a B2 Flumpet which works just fine)
    -Jimi
     
  5. Bennem

    Bennem New Friend

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    May 6, 2005
    UK
    take a look at Hub VanLaar a dutch instrument maker he makes lovely flugels as well as trumpets www.hubvanlaar.com

    I have a B3 in silver plate and am very pleased with how it plays and the finish of the instrument.

    He does have a US dealer who's name I can't remember. But the price in US is about $2000 which is pretty good for a hand made instrument
     
  6. WildTrumpet

    WildTrumpet New Friend

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    May 5, 2005
    Saint Paul, Minnesota
    I have been really happy with my Yamaha 631G. I played both Getzen and Leblanc in college because those are what the dept. owned. I found the Leblanc to play more freely - but most of the other guys preferred the Getzens. I have found that flugels definitely have their own "personality" - much more so that trumpets. When I was in the market, I was stuck between the Leblanc Arturo model and the Yamaha. You need to spend some quality time with the various brands and decide which one speaks to you. Then, try a bunch of horns from that company until you find the one that responds the best.

    As far as mouthpieces go, I totally agree that you should keep as close to the same rim as possible between your trumpet and flugel. Mainly because you'll find yourself having to switch a lot in the middle of tunes and this allows for the easiest switch. I also agree that the deeper cup is definitely the way to go. Hope this helps.

    Alex K.
     
  7. Tootsall

    Tootsall Fortissimo User

    4,529
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    Oct 25, 2003
    Yee HAW!
    I have a Jupiter 846L purchased from St. John's Music in Calgary. It's a really nice horn for the cost. There are definitely better flugels made but at a significantly higher cost (remember, y'all... eisprl is in Canada). I've read many reports that the 846RL (rose brass bell AND 3rd trigger) is a significantly better horn at a slightly higher price. I've seen one person comment that they didn't think the RL option was worth the extra price given the amount of use they have for a flugel. Consider the Jupiter a clone of the Yamaha 631.

    It really depends on how much you think you'll be using one: in concert band I have played it on ONE tune in 4 years. Other people have borrowed and used mine more than I have! In your case, you want it for jazz... I've had a student from the local university borrow mine because they needed on in the jazz ensemble for a couple of weeks (just not something that they tend to have in their collection out here). You should probably get a GOOD one. Unfortunately you are in a position (as am I) where it's difficult to try many out unless you go somewhere where they have a bunch of 'em.

    There's a local pro (all he does is teach and perform... on a multitude of instruments) who has a Yamaha 731 with the rose bell; it works for him but he can write the cost off on his taxes as a "professional musician".

    In your case I would think that "used" is the way to go... the difficulty will be in the pre-purchase testing. Good luck.
     
  8. trickg

    trickg Utimate User

    6,791
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    Oct 26, 2003
    Baltimore/DC
    I have a Kanstul CCF 925 with a copper bell that I picked up every so slightly used at PiCK Music for about $1100. This flugel was play tested against:

    Bach Strad flugel
    Yamaha Shew Flugel - Silver
    Yamaha 631 w/trigger - Rose bell
    Yamaha 631 wo/trigger - Rose bell
    Kanstul Chicago - Silver
    Kanstul Chicago - Lacquer
    Jupiter 846L

    The only one of those flugels that it didn't out and out beat for playability and sound was the Yamaha Shew Flugel, but I didn't want silver. I could have play tested a Signature Flugel, but didn't for a few reasons:

    1.) The Custom Class was more than good enough and cost less
    2.) I only double on flugel and a true upper end flugel just wasn't necessary
    3.) I was a afraid I would like it and buy it anyway :D

    Against those others, the Jupiter was my least favorite, but if I only had the cash for the Jupiter, it would have been a viable option. Since I did have the money for more, it was not strongly considered.

    I suggest looking for something good used such as a Yamaha 631 with a rose brass bell. I played on one of those for a while and really liked it. Getzens should also be considered and don't overlook DEGs. I know a guy who had one that was actually pretty good.
     
  9. Silver

    Silver New Friend

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    Mar 29, 2005
    I play on a Bobby Shew Yamaha model, works great. I would echo what someone else said about the mouthpiece rims.

    Match your flugel rim with your normal trumpet mp rim. IE Play on a 3c, then get a 3 rim flugel. I use Stork myself for flugel, confortable on the face and I like the sound --
     
  10. eisprl

    eisprl Mezzo Piano User

    Age:
    35
    602
    1
    Sep 26, 2004
    Halifax, NS CANADA
    Well I did it!!!!

    I finally got myself a flugel.

    I found meyself at Twigg`s music in Montreal and Pascal Twigg gave me five flugels to try out. The used Bach was the better price, but I didn`t connect with it.

    I chose from:

    Yamaha (normal model I don`t know the number)
    Yamaha - Bobby Shew
    Used Bach
    New Bach
    the new Getzen

    The final desicion was between the Bobby Shew and the used Bach (mostly because of the price).

    Drum roll please.............

    I chose the Bobby Shew with his signature mouthpiece (only until I can get a matching GR flugel mouthpiece) does GR even make them? I`ll have to check.

    It works great. It`s amazing. It seemed smaller than the others but still had the deepest tone (am I imagining this?)

    Ah well, I am sure I will have many years of fun with this horn

    Thanks for all your insight
    Greatly appriciated
    Eric Sproul
     

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