Flugel problem

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by frankmike, May 17, 2010.

  1. frankmike

    frankmike Piano User

    Dec 5, 2008
    it is Korean, but it is not crap product (I would never buy crap product, be sure). It is hard to beleive but it is quality product, it really is.

    (some mods know my feelings about eastern products, they nearly banned me because I was harsh on chinese industry, and was calling them names) but his horn is different.
  2. trickg

    trickg Utimate User

    Oct 26, 2003
    Fair enough. Seriously though, try cleaning the horn, swabbing out the valve casings and wiping off the valves themselves. On any new horn I have ever owned or used, I've had to do that before the valves started to work properly. I think it's due to left over buffing compound reside left in the horn. All I know is that the first couple of times you do that, the cloth that you use (plain white handkerchiefs for me) will remove a lot of black residue - when the tolerances are that tight, that residue can really gum up the works, but it also serves to polish off the high spots on the valves and casings, so once you remove it, it should help your valves considerably.
  3. trumpetnick

    trumpetnick Fortissimo User

    Nov 16, 2005
    Vidin, Bulgaria
    The Roy Benson trade mark is owned by GEWA music: Welcome to the world of music! and some suspect that they are made in the same factory as some jupiters. Whether this is true or not, I cannot confirm.

    have a look there: ROY BENSON WIND INSTRUMENTS | Free Online Trademark Search | Trademark by GEWA music GmbH

    This makes me think that the product is made in Chinese or Taiwanese factory and imported by Gewa Music and other resellers with the Roy Benson name on it.

    However, Frank doesn't seem to be the only one complaining about their horns: Which brand is better- Roy Benson or Bundy wind/brass instruments? - Yahoo! Answers
  4. trumpetnick

    trumpetnick Fortissimo User

    Nov 16, 2005
    Vidin, Bulgaria
    How about changing to a different brand of oil or applying oil more often? Trickg has a point about break in and buffing compound left overs, though this was not my experience with Spada horns - they worked just fine from day one, but I guess that stock are supplied with less care than when buying a custom horn.
  5. oldlou

    oldlou Forte User

    Aug 28, 2005
    Grand Rapids, Mi.
    Not to condemn or praise any instrument made in the Orient, because I have never owned one, I think that the major part of your problem is in the 'wearing in' of the valve pistons and casing linings. Even the finest of piston valve horns need a good bit of usage and subsequent cleaning and oiling to fully function reliably. I have seen and worked on many high grade horns that had no serious mechanical problems. They just needed to be used, cleaned, and oiled after every usage. Even the proverbial Olds and Reynolds horns from the 1970's left the factory in many cases still in need of lapping in of the valves. That is one of the factors that forced the Olds company out of business. This, from a company that made some of the finest valve engines in the industry at that time. H.N. White went through a period of totally unplated valve pistons. The differences between the entry level horns and the 'artist grade' is in the final fit and finish, which includes the final lapping of the valves. The maker of your flugel has left that final lapping to you, the consumer. This also requires a total cleaning and oiling after EVERY usage, until the horn is worn in. The use of a top quality synthetic valve oil on TOTALLY DRY pistons is also highly reccomended, because it does not emulsify with your condensed breath and saliva to form sludge on the pistons.

    Last edited: May 17, 2010
  6. frankmike

    frankmike Piano User

    Dec 5, 2008
    thats it, because when I pull the valve out it is full of water bubbles, whereas on tpt it is never the case. I assumed it was drain valve position, but now I see it is valve oil

    for flugel I use Al Cass. Milford Mass Fast

    whil for tpt I use Yamaha synhtethic regular
  7. veery715

    veery715 Utimate User

    Mar 6, 2007
    Ithaca NY
    Drop the Cass and use your Yamaha synthetic on the flug. Follow oldlou's cleaning/reoiling instructions and let us know how things are in a month.

  8. hup_d_dup

    hup_d_dup Piano User

    May 28, 2009
    Tewksbury, NJ, USA
    I have a Yamaha cornet that had symptoms exactly as you described; 2nd valve worked fine when lubricated, but slowed down after a day of two. However that problem gradually disappeared and now the 2nd valve operates as well as the other two, and for just as long.

    Doesn't mean we have the same problem, but I think the fact that your 1st valve does operate well when lubricated is a hopeful sign that it's a break-in issue, not a manufacturing flaw.
  9. Buck with a Bach

    Buck with a Bach Fortissimo User

    Dec 29, 2009
    Canton, Ohio
    I have the same type of problem with my Chinese flugel( Selman brand). It is getting somewhat better with time, but still has it's days. I noticed quite a bit of sludge in the casing the first couple of cleanings, but it's dropped off some now, especially after I switched to Ultra Pure oil.
    i just played a gig( church) this weekend with it and it performed fairly well. Once I get more acclimated to it, I think we'll get along pretty well. Our organist loves the tonal color of it since I got an X-Stream mouthpiece for it............Buck:oops:

    MTROSTER Piano User

    Jan 25, 2007
    I agree. Drop the Cass and stick to the Yamaha synthetic. I find Cass forms varnishes on the pistons that always gummed up my valves. I now use yamaha synthetic or Ultra-pure and have had no problem since.:thumbsup:

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