Flugel problem

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by frankmike, May 17, 2010.

  1. nordlandstrompet

    nordlandstrompet Forte User

    Apr 5, 2008
    Most flugels are built with a adjustable leadpipe which is connected
    to the first valve. If we look at the distance from the mp to the first
    waterclef, it is pretty equal to what the distance is on a trumpet with
    the exception that on the flugel, the air (and moist) has to go through
    the valvesection before it arrives the waterclef area.
    What I have experienced with the flugels I have played (and own(ed)),
    Besson Sovereign, Getzen Eterna 4V, Couesnon Monopole, ConnV1
    and Taylor Phat Boy, is that the water is no problem on valve 1 and 2
    due to the short distance from the mp. Valve 3 collects some water,
    but most goes through the valvesystem and has to be emptied through the
    main waterclef after the valvesection.
    My experience tells me that a waterclef before the valvesection would not
    have any practical use.

    Things that can get a valve to hang up could be that there is sharp edges (see picture)
    which can make the valves hang up. It is possible to use very fine emery paper
    to (carefully) grind off these sharp edges by placing the emery on a plane surface
    and rotate the valve a couple of revolutions.
    (I used this method on the Sovereign 947 each time the valves started to make
    a "scratching" feeling.)

    Clean the valves well and use a synthetic oil.

    Last edited: May 17, 2010
  2. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 18, 2006
    I agree, many Flugelhorns do collect water and that surely belongs in the "Dumb Design" family. I see no reason why a flugel couldn't have a better geometry for avoiding water.

    My current practice is to tip the horn with the mouthpiece down and let the water drip out.

    The Roy Benson is a CHEAP student instrument that is built fairly well.
  3. trickg

    trickg Utimate User

    Oct 26, 2003
    I disagree with that. Al Cass was my oil of choice for a long time - Sophomore in HS through to my early 30s - close to 20 years. My ONLY issue with Al Cass oil was that if I was playing a gig outdoors and it was hot, not unusual for an Army Bandsman, it would gum up a bit if I hadn't oiled in a couple of days. Otherwise it was a nice combination, neither too thin, nor too thick, and it would last for nearly a week before I had to re-oil and that was playing for hours every day. I currently use Zaja, but mainly because a local music store was selling off its stock and I got about 10 bottles for a buck apiece.

    In any case, if he's using Al Cass oil, I doubt if the oil is the problem.
  4. entrancing1

    entrancing1 Mezzo Piano User

    Feb 16, 2010
    Buffalo, NY
    If cleaning daily results in the valves operating properly, then clean daily and enjoy freely moving valves.
  5. guyclark

    guyclark Piano User

    Feb 28, 2008
    Los Gatos, CA
    Hi, guys!

    I thought I was going to be the first to recommend the Zaja oil, but I see that Pat has beaten me to it! ;-) I find Zaja (I'm using the French Vanilla scented oil) to be a bit thicker and more slippery than Al Cass, which I've used for most of forty-something years!

    For a while I also tried making my own blend of Kerosene and "three in one" type oils but (much to the relief of those who sit near me) I've switched to the Zaja.

    Hope that helps!

  6. trickg

    trickg Utimate User

    Oct 26, 2003
    I actually prefer the Zaja Pro Blue oil - slightly thinner but infused with Teflon particles, and it really, really lasts.

    Having said that, I do feel that the Zaja oil lasts longer than the Al Cass - right now I'm using lemon and lime scents - nice, fresh and clean smelling, but I've also used the vanilla.
  7. kcmt01

    kcmt01 Mezzo Forte User

    Sep 25, 2009
    Polson, MT
    I used up all my Cass valve oil for starting fires in the upstairs stove, and use Blue Juice on my horns. All valve problems solved.

    MTROSTER Piano User

    Jan 25, 2007
    It's interesting how body chemistry can affect how different oils work for different people. I tried Zaja oil and it was expensive, but it didn't work for me.:dontknow:
  9. trickg

    trickg Utimate User

    Oct 26, 2003
    Yeah, that's true enough. Personally, I've never had a truly bad experience with any oil, with maybe the exception of the Bach valve oil they sold in the mid 80s. That stuff was terrible and although the valves didn't stick, there were terribly sluggish on my friend's Strad. (I used Holton oil at the time, which was pretty good.) Most all have worked, but some worked better than others.

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