For all people looking for afforadable Trumpets from Student,Intermediate to Pro

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by lovevixen555, Feb 8, 2009.

  1. daniel starz

    daniel starz Piano User

    374
    4
    Jan 11, 2009
    wasilla alaska
    RDT1959 & Rowuk

    yep once again your both right , i miss read the "before" part thanks for the enlightenment .
    I LOVE MY SHOP happy happy with them , my son likes them as well:play:
     
  2. tedh1951

    tedh1951 Utimate User

    7,797
    2,356
    Oct 18, 2007
    The Wide Brown Land
    (Thinks: There's an opening for a bright young poster).

    Careful Nordlands this is about trumpets and stuff rather than wives who never wear anything .... or perhaps I misunderstood your post ???? :oops:
     
  3. veery715

    veery715 Utimate User

    5,010
    1,801
    Mar 6, 2007
    Ithaca NY
    I'd buy her all the clothes she wants! :thumbsup:
    veery
     
  4. daniel starz

    daniel starz Piano User

    374
    4
    Jan 11, 2009
    wasilla alaska
    bad puddy cat :shhh:
     
  5. lovevixen555

    lovevixen555 Banned

    623
    5
    Nov 5, 2008
    Michigan
    I have no axe to grind at all. I think they are rapeiong people's wallets and pushing junk made in China on parents that do not know any better and chargeing them top dollar. I think most of them have next to no selection of brass instruments in the store on hand for people to play anymore because no one wants to sit on inventory anymore. So if it sounds like I have an axe to grind it is with the used car salesman mentality that seem to permeate the musical instrument and acc.'s sales business. I think it is a shame that so many chose to charge insanely high prices for fairly cheap goods! Their is no reason for most of the goods sold by music stores to cost so much!! My valve oil issue is a perfect example. If you paid for synthetic car motor oil what you pay for synthetic valve oil a quart of synthetic motor oil would run you $96 or more a quart instead of the $6-$7 a quart it sells for on say Walmart shelfs. If motor oil was priced like regular valve oil we would be looking at $191.36 a gallon or $47.84 a quart for regular non-synthetic motor oil. Now you can not tell me that the ingredients in a bottle of regular valve oil are more expensive then what goes into a quart of motor oil! You can not tell me that they arenot makeing enough valve oil at a time from common available distillates, solvents and oil to keep the price point lower then it is. Nothing in valve oil is unique to valve oil it is made from off the shelf componets that have been around as byproducts of refineing crude into various other products for well over 100 year's. Buy the way I used the price of $2.99 for 2 once bottle of valve oil from Musicians friends this seemed to be the average price of most of the non-synthetic valve oils like Al Cass and Rhoche Thomas and Holton etc.....They just want to reach deep into your wallet and get you for all they can. Same thing goes for mouthpieces that have been made for a long long time to a known patern their is no R&D involved in many of these MP's. They are not hand made for most instances! If someone in China can import the raw materials and the CNC equipment and pay to train people to operate the machinery and can make a mouthpiece silver plate it load onto a cantainer and ship it half way around the world, truckit by big rig to a warhouse where it is sent out to other distributions channels and then be sold for $12-$20 a pop and everyone involved is makeing a profit then why $60 or more for other brands of mass produced mouthpieces???? When you look at the fact that an American does not need to import the raw materials, the machinery, does not have to train a machinist, and has designs already loaded intot he CNC machines in stead of reverse engineering a product, does not have to ship it by boat half way around the world and already has well established sales channels their is no excuse besides greed! The difference in rate of pay is not a big deal since it does not take a lot of people to run a CNC operation one person can run more then one machine at a time and quality control can be done with a few people in key spots along the conveyor before automated packageing puts the product in a box. Obviously I am not talking about hand made models that are low volume specialty products. Reeds are another big thing. I could go on and on if I wanted to because math does not lie it is always true. In order for one place to be able to charge $1000 less for an indetical item as other stores their has to be a huge buffer built into the price charged versus what they pay the company for that product. No one sells instruments for a lose so for that guy to sell for so much less and still turn a profit that tells me that the mark up is insane on instruments. It wouldnot suprise me to find out that a $2000 trumpet probably only cost's the dealer $200-$400 tops from the company with what ever they manage to sell it for being their margin. It might be less then that I do not know either way I am going by what I know about manufactureing and marketing. That is the only way to explain huge differences in priceing from time to time especialy when a smaller company is the one with the lower price since you know they are not buying enough from the company to get better priceing and the supply chain for something like instruments probably does not have a lot of different points inthe supply chain where one can purchase so it cannot be explained away by purchaseing soon in the supply chain either. Greed!! That is it and it usaly is. Some companies want to make ever dime they can off every sale while other's are willing to settle for a decent rate of return and go for more volume. It is an old tale. The idea of exclusiveity of an item or the creation of a feeling of elitism is an age old marketing scam to get people to accept high prices it is older then the sword that is how old that marketing practice is!

    So if I have an axe to grind it is with being tired of people over chargeing for every little thing they can. For haveing the audacity to charge $12.95 shipping to mail a single mouth piece that is a $63 mouthpiece for regular shipping. For wanting $3-$4 dollars to send a .80 once bottle of valve oil that is under $3 to my house. .80 onces is like the size of a bottle of Visine eye drops for crying out loud. I am tired of their games. To be fair I have never tried to negoaite a price at a music store maybe next time I go to Marshalls or another one I will give it a try.

    What good is a local store that does not have a selection of instruments on hand for you to play test? We are always telling people that they should play test before you buy but none of the stores I have seen have many models to try. I see more variety at a Pawn Shop. That is why so many people come on here asking about various models because they cannot get them any place where they live toplay test them. Oh I definately hate the fact that I can not order directly from a manufacture! The dealers have next to nothing on hand but they are the only source to purchase new what is that? How many different trumpets do you think a shop willorder in for you to try? Do you think they are going to order 6 different models or variations for you to try??? I doubt it!
     
  6. vntgbrslvr

    vntgbrslvr Piano User

    267
    5
    Oct 10, 2008
    Waukesha, Wisconsin
    Dude your killin me...........

    Your first sentence says you have no axe to grind....The next sentence is a direct contradiction to that statement......and you follow it with a novel of reasons why you are going to continue complaining either out of bitterness, or jealousy for anyone else that seems to make a profit at what you consider your expense.

    People selling these instruments and equipment need to make a profit so they can stay in business to service us.

    The music business is more a labor of love than money for almost anyone that participates in it. That goes from the top to the bottom of the food chain. for player, retailer, or repair man.

    Music happens to be a hobby (for me) that I love....I don't do it for the money (I couldn't afford to eat if I did). To watch you complain and whine about feeling swindled every time you discuss retail products makes me pity you. Your value system is so hyperfocused on what everyone else is getting/taking/swindling from you that you lose focus on the enjoyment of what we're doing with these instruments.

    Get over the concerns about who is making how much in a transaction and start enjoying the horns.....if the process of purchasing oil for your instrument becomes as painful for you as it sounds....perhaps it's time to step back, and put things back into proper perspective.
     
  7. nordlandstrompet

    nordlandstrompet Forte User

    1,839
    221
    Apr 5, 2008
    Norway
    Yeah.. right, ok, but, I was talking about valve oil....I think

    You guys are taking things out of context.
    Have you tried to by them clothes that YOU want? :shock: (them to wear?)
    [​IMG]
     
  8. nordlandstrompet

    nordlandstrompet Forte User

    1,839
    221
    Apr 5, 2008
    Norway
    I don't understand the american "gallon system" properly.
    How many bottles of valve oil can you make from one gallon?

    Are new, empty valve oil bottles free?
    Are CNC operated systems free?
    Are people working for free?
    Is transport costs free?

    Is valve oil made in lots of quantaphantazillionmillions of gallons?

    Except from autodidacted theoretical skills,
    do you really know anything about manufacturing and marketing?

    Why are you complaining about absolutely everything?

    Since you are so tired of "their games" in the brass world:
    Have you considered to quit trumpets and start with recorders?
     
  9. vntgbrslvr

    vntgbrslvr Piano User

    267
    5
    Oct 10, 2008
    Waukesha, Wisconsin
    "I don't understand the american "gallon system" properly.
    How many bottles of valve oil can you make from one gallon?"

    1 US Gallon is 3.78 liters.
     
  10. tedh1951

    tedh1951 Utimate User

    7,797
    2,356
    Oct 18, 2007
    The Wide Brown Land
    Ahhh, too easy Nordlands m'boy - if you have 1x one gallon bottle you can make one bottle of valve oil from one gallon - what the deuce you'd do with a GALLON of valve oil just completely defeats me. ROFLROFL There y'go Robin - something dumb just happened, pleased to be of service I'm sure.
     

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