For those of you that use the velocity of air...

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by TrumpetMonk, Feb 11, 2010.

  1. Al Innella

    Al Innella Forte User

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    It takes less air to play a high C than it does a low C, the lips[embouchure] are looser [not as firm] for the low register than the high register ,so it takes more quantity [volume] of air. As you play higher the embouchure tightens and takes more velocity [compression] of air to form the pitch. Trying to use the same amount of air in the high register as you do in loud low register playing usually results in headaches and blackouts.
     
  2. Markie

    Markie Forte User

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    Check out "Arch Tongue and Hiss"
     
  3. Harald

    Harald New Friend

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    This "proof experiment" nicely demonstrates that the "air flow" (volume per time) is larger at low C than at high C. But it does not demonstrate air velocity (distance the air travels per time). You can have high "air velocity" with low "air flow" (that may or may not happen with high notes). I think the tongue arch increases the resistance which reduces air flow (volume of air per time). If it affects "air velocity" I don't know.
     
  4. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    We went a step further in the mid 70s during my studies. A smoker took a big puff and then played, low then high. If anything was fast, then we would have seen smoke "faster", it didn't happen.

    All of the significant, scientific tests that I have read show that the backpressure of the horn increases with frequency, reducing demand and quantity of air flowing. The pressur goes up, but that would only result in higher velocity if the air was free to move forward. All of the myths that I have read have never had any scientific backing. I prefer physics to fantasy.

    The problem is that most players have no idea how the trumpet works. If they would do just a bit of research, many things would become clearer.
     
  5. TrumpetMonk

    TrumpetMonk Pianissimo User

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    But doesn't a player's air make their lips vibrate? When I buzz without a mp or horn or anything, I can easily feel the air getting vaster as I try to vibrate my lips faster? Wouldn't that make a low pressure high air velocity playing style key?
     
  6. Ed Kennedy

    Ed Kennedy Forte User

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    This is the crux of the matter. Are we not merely causing a standing wave in the air column inside the instrument?:laughwave:
     
  7. Phil

    Phil Pianissimo User

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    I'm going to have to agree and disagree with rowuk on this one. Arching the tongue certainly does make a difference in playing high notes as has been demonstrated; although, I have not come to an understanding in HOW arching the tongue works in this situation. Knowing how the trumpet and body works to play the trumpet is helpful (this is the part I agree on), but I have to go with Frank Campos on this; it is best to just have a good sound concept in your head and go with what makes the best sound, focus on creating the music more than focusing on how everything is supposed to work, it's simply too much to think about when playing and ultimately causes problems during a performance.
     
  8. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    We agree 100%. Less ANALysis can help us play more musically.

    I'll let you all in on a little secret. The higher that we play, the less lip that we use. The aperature discussion is meaningless as it does not define WHAT vibrates, only the size of the hole where air can pass through. The upper and lower lip have differing mass and density and do not "flap" perfectly synchronized throughout the register. We do not decrease the vibrating area directly with the aperature. Arching changes from WHERE the air hits the lips. I think it is more of a turbulence issue. In theory, it would REDUCE the airspeed as it does not create a venturi worth mentioning compared to the aperature and mouthpiece throat size.

    check this link out, then you will see what I mean:
    IWK Brass Research
     
  9. Markie

    Markie Forte User

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    rowuk sez:
    The upper and lower lip have differing mass and density and do not "flap" perfectly synchronized throughout the register. We do not decrease the vibrating area directly with the aperature. Arching changes from WHERE the air hits the lips.
    -----------------
    I didn't know that! And, it makes sense that arching the tongue changes where the air hits the lips. I know arching the tongue works great for the upper register and now I know why.
    Thanks rowuk!
     
  10. B15M

    B15M Forte User

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    If we are just setting up a wave and the air going through isn't a key factor, why do some trumpets feel stuffy? Not much air is going through there anyway.
     

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