Forming Aperture

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by bamajazzlady, Sep 6, 2011.

  1. LeeMorganFan

    LeeMorganFan New Friend

    Apr 7, 2011

    IT is really interesting how your statement above can actually discourage people from taking part on this forum in fear of being chastised for their comments. One would think that the idea of having a public forum as such would be to encourage as much feedback as possible.

    If you re-read my post carefully you will find that the only advice I gave bamajazzlady was "you should definitely find a good teacher in your area". As for the rest of my post, it was merely illustration of my experiences and what has worked best for me.


    P.S.-I like the advice that has been given here by many of you, great stuff! TM members ROCK!
  2. gzent

    gzent Fortissimo User

    Nov 5, 2003
    Rochester, MN
    I'll second that. TM, what it is today and who participates is the best!
  3. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 18, 2006
    I have a philosophy about people and their motivations. One of the major problems of our time is the unwillingness to listen and the desire to broadcast without previous reflection.

    There are many approaches to getting better. The best one is to look in the mirror. I think that also applies to answering a post.

    Recommending a teacher is almost always a waste of time - even although it may be the best solution. Why do I say that? Because there is usually not an IMMEDIATE NEED by the players asking the question. I would even go so far as to say, a teacher won't work better for many because they simply don't care enough to meet the minimum practice requirements to make the investment worthwhile.

    As far as "criticism" and the possible fear that could be generated, I'm sorry I do not support club robinson approach that "everyone should feel good regardless of whatever". Encourage as much feedback as possible? Nope! Encourage massive amounts of THINKING, yup! Forums do not maintain quality by the total number of posts. I will say that a free for all makes it much harder to find the quality. It does not bother me one bit if posters think twice or even three times before pressing the post reply button! Just like my students know what I expect when they show up for a lesson.

    Finally, I firmly believe that internet embouchure discussions are a big waste of time. Most players have only treated symptoms and really have no idea why things work. Without seeing and hearing the player, there is no way to recommend anything. Facial muscles, the tongue and state of breathing are VERY individual. There is not even concensus among the knowledgable about what "formula" would have the best results.

    That is why I recommend long tones and lipslurs. With a healthy dose of those, at least there is a moderate chance that the mouthpiece will gravitate to a reasonably efficient position. My success with this method in the last 35 years has been very high.
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2011
  4. gzent

    gzent Fortissimo User

    Nov 5, 2003
    Rochester, MN
    Ditto. Explaining our own mechanics to someone else by typing in words on a computer is bound to result in little real
    learning. Its just too complex and unique to each player. The good teachers know this.

    When topics like this come up I tell people my own experience of taking my first trumpet lesson from a pro, Manny Laureano,
    a few years back when I was around 40 years old. That one hour lesson did more to improve my playing than months
    of practicing or cruising the forums and the improvement was immediate.

    If you want to get better take lessons from someone who routinely performs at a level where you want to be some day.
    Forget about relying (strictly) on advice from us chatters.

  5. Vulgano Brother

    Vulgano Brother Moderator Staff Member

    Mar 23, 2006
    Parts Unknown
    While I agree that most of the mechanics can't be put into words to produce an instant Satori, concepts and attitudes can. The concept of getting better involves an attitude that Bruno Walter called "impulse of will." Came in handy in my rock-climbing days--yeah, I'd scout the pitch and plan my moves, but sometimes I'd be in situations where the Nike slogan "Just do it" applied.

    I've given up climbing, and the "impulse of will" and "Just do it" attitude don't get me many dates. Works with the trumpet, though.
  6. frankmike

    frankmike Piano User

    Dec 5, 2008
    wellcome to the forum LMF.

    Ive had simmilar beef with that person, but in a time you will learn to like him. I did.

    He is our House, md. of TM.

    p.s. besides he is german, so he probably wont understand everything you say to him. Irony, humor, sarcasm -all excapes him.

    Besides be can be merciless. Be carefull with him, because he will ban you anytime. He banned certain Maurice guy who advocated rinehard method (he hates that method). So he banned him for life.

    Few months later Maurice was actually dying from cancer and he and his friend a jewish called Moshe Mizrachi virtually begged Rowuk to unban him. So he can say goodby to his peers here on TM. But he wouldnt. He wouldnt unban him. Maurice died. And we never got a chance to say goodbye to him. Moshe went away and we never heard form him since.

    Recently I asked Rowuk how could he sleep at night, considering the heavy burden he obviously felt. He replied -I sleep fine -thank you.
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2011
  7. tedh1951

    tedh1951 Utimate User

    Oct 18, 2007
    The Wide Brown Land
    Ohhhh tutt! tutt!, how you blokes misread the mighty Rowuk ............................................ Ted walks away mumbling into the sunset, why do they not see the humour, the considered advice, the "BS" disperser, .................... shakes head - stumbles on - a little tear maybe ......... they have SO MUCH to learn .. :-( ;-)
  8. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 18, 2006
    I am an American living in Germany. I (and my employer) consider myself fluent in several languages.

    I have banned 2 people in my whole time at TM /excluding spammers), not for disagreement, rather for very bad behaviour. The posts are not deleted (don't believe in censorship). Check out Screaming Morris and draw your own conclusions. There was ALWAYS a fair amount of PMs to clear up issues before any action was taken.

    Reinhart is not a method, it is a description and categorization of embouchures that is invaluable to the brass teacher. I do not disagree with it. I do disagree with conclusions that many not in the know draw from just reading a little.

    Moshe did not beg to unban Morris - they were the same person (the details are too private to publish). The subject of death was brought up once. Funny, Moshe does not post anymore, anywhere...

    Frankmike, if you have a personal issue, only post stuff that you KNOW. Secondhand conclusions are just like the BS surrounding Reinharts fine treatise! I hate BS. In any case, you aren't banned, even for telling lies.

    I feel no burden because I do not carry BS or much unfinished stuff around with me. I sleep like a rock.
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2011
  9. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

    Jan 28, 2011
    Dayton, Ohio
    I second this experience, and do not let the initial sound discourage. I will not recommend an optimal embouchure position as this is so individualized AND with the guidance of a teacher. However, the physiology, I know quite well. It takes muscle some time to tone and develop around the desired use, and requirements that user is putting on the muscle groups involved. This will come in time, just as the runner will improve their times by coordinating there muscle actions to the event they are working out to perfect. You will reach perfection as well, but will do so more proficiently by getting yourself a coach (teacher).
  10. frankmike

    frankmike Piano User

    Dec 5, 2008
    Funny? Person died. Rowuk.

    Or do you, while living in your imaginary world, think he lied about dying and never actually died -but is unable to post anywhere because he is banned everywhere!

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