Full sound?

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Myshilohmy, May 24, 2009.

  1. rbdeli

    rbdeli Mezzo Piano User

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    myshilohmy,

    I think you are an above average trumpet player for a highschool student. While Rowuk's words seemed harsh, don't be offended by them. You will meet much harsher critics from groups of your own peers, even though they might not be as direct and blunt about it as Rowuk. You will learn to appreciate plain, direct criticism as honest, passionate caring trumpet teaching.

    As for opening up your sound: Try forgetting about what your throat, neck, jaw and body are doing. Just do whatever it takes to get air out of your body and through the horn. Listen to how you want the note to sound before you play it, and you're body will do whatever is needed to supply it. A good, full sounding note starts in the head.
    When we first learned to talk, did our parents have to tell us where to put our tongues, how far to open up our mouths and expand our jaws? No, of course not. We learned to talk by listening and reproducing what we heard.

    Read what Claude Gordon has to say about this in his book, The Physical Approach to the Trumpet. I believe he talks about this in this book.

    Keep practicing and don't stop asking for advise and help. Play for people every chance you get.
     
  2. RobertSlotte

    RobertSlotte Pianissimo User

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    do not confuse the very back of your tongue with your throath!
     
  3. rbdeli

    rbdeli Mezzo Piano User

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    Let's not confuse humble for meek. Cocky and confident are good ways for a trumpet player to be, but there is nothing wrong with humble. In fact, I will guarantee you that there is no such thing as a great player who didn't learn to be humble many times over.

    Let me give you the perfect example:
    Your criticism of the highschool trumpet player. If he were not humble, how would you expect him to handle such harsh criticism from you?
    A trumpet player who is not humble would get offended and not learn anything from your stern little lecture.

    If we didn't expect trumpet players to be humble, then one might consider your statement about his playing to be non-constructive, rude and insulting.



     
    RobertSlotte likes this.
  4. Vulgano Brother

    Vulgano Brother Moderator Staff Member

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    Years ago, when I was a Musician's Union Business Agent we hosted a bunch of the the leaders from the Los Angeles Recording Musician's Association. Its officers included a bunch of first-call triple scale studio players, and we had a chance to work (contract and negotiation stuff) with them and hang out as well. They were all neat people to hang out with, with hobbies from sailplaning to fishing. The comment from one of my rock&roll colleagues was as follows: "These guys are so good they don't need to be arrogant!"

    That turned into a goal for my demeanor as a player--to be that good, and not be arrogant--just right on.
     
  5. rbdeli

    rbdeli Mezzo Piano User

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    Good story.

    To be clear, you can be confident, arrogant, cocky even downright aggressively obnoxious, yet still be humble.

    Being humble means that I admit I can still get better. It means that there are still others that can teach me. I don't know of anyone in any profession who says they have nothing else to learn.

    My roommate in college was probably the most cocky trumpet player I ever knew. He had the fit, demeantor and cockiness you want in a lead player, yet he was still humble. He loved to learn his craft.




     
  6. RobertSlotte

    RobertSlotte Pianissimo User

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    Very good point VulganoBrother
     
  7. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    Robert,

    Here is the anatomy of the human throat: MedlinePlus Medical Encyclopedia: Throat anatomy

    The throat itself (or more accurately the trachea) is cartilidge and can't close. At the top of the "throat" we have a valve called the epiglottis that closes every time that we swallow. When we breathe (even poorly) it is wide open. The vocal chords are also in the trachea, and some stressed players have been known to hum while playing, really messing up their sound.

    Closed throat is just plain wrong. The effect that many trumpet players call "closed" is simply upper body and shoulder/neck tension which does NOT block the throat, rather keep us from relaxing regardless if we are breathing or not. The tongue can be guilty of closing off the flow of air, but that is a different phenomena all together.

    I maintain that too many accomplished players don't know why they are so good and tell the same fairy tales that they got told when they were younger. I find these stories useless. If someone is tense, deal with it, if they are humming along, deal with it, if the tongue is not doing the job, deal with it. A teacher needs to get first hand info. I'll take a doctor over a trumpet player any day when it comes to anatomy. The truth produces better, more lasting results.

    As far as the pitch dropping when we "open up", that is proof that our breath support was not "floating" the sound. We relied on tension to support the pitch. That limits range, sound and endurance.

    The act of coughing is governed by the tongue pushing against the glottis, not the throat. Need proof? Stick your tongue out of the mouth and try and cough. You can't close anything. If this is the problem, some articulation exercizes cures it VERY quickly!
     
  8. RobertSlotte

    RobertSlotte Pianissimo User

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    Rowuk,

    I might just stand corected but... I still can cough if I stick my tongue out and something for sure is closing it and it does not seme to be the tongue...I tryed sticking it out and even tryed pushing it down as much as I could with a spoon (yeah I know I´m a little bit wierd) and I still could cough just the same.....

    It could maby be the tongue but down so low that I am not avere of it...but it sure does not feel like it.

    how about you all reading this?...can you cough with your tongue out or is there something wrong with my windpipes? :)
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2009
  9. rbdeli

    rbdeli Mezzo Piano User

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    Robert, see a DOCTOR!.. lol..

    Yes, you can definitely cough with your tongue out. You can definitely close your throat. It's called gagging. This is actually something I do when I haven't practiced in a long time and attempt to reach higher notes. My throat closes off and causes me to gag and cough. It tickles.
     
  10. RobertSlotte

    RobertSlotte Pianissimo User

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    yes, I have checked in the mirror. I for sure can close my throat and I do not do it by tensening my trapetsius or other tension in my upper body. I find it hard to belive that I would be the only one who can close it so rowuk is simply wrong....but he is not going to admit it :roll:
     

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