Getting the mold out?

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by RAK, Oct 5, 2009.

  1. Gaucho Viejo

    Gaucho Viejo Pianissimo User

    Apr 23, 2008
    Palouse, Washington
    "I don't know how "natural" applies since it is manufactured not harvested."

    Forgive me, I thought that grapes (which is what vinegar is made from) were harvested. I guess in your world grapes are manufactured.
  2. tedh1951

    tedh1951 Utimate User

    Oct 18, 2007
    The Wide Brown Land
    Greg is right - bottom line, take care - or trumpet is junk.
  3. tedh1951

    tedh1951 Utimate User

    Oct 18, 2007
    The Wide Brown Land
    In My Humble Opinion (IMHO), and without being too perdantic, and if we take a small section of Greg's post and replicate it here, and then post it - here ya go ....

    "So, don't assume any acid is "safe" or "natural"."

    ..... then Greg is right (once again IMHO).

    Sorry, I should have been MORE SPECIFIC, I admit, my conversation is sometimes a little loose, sometimes a little stupid, and sometimes it's just conversation.

    Pardon me for breathing. ;-):shhh:
  4. trumpetman1989

    trumpetman1989 New Friend

    Oct 6, 2009
    Eugene, OR 97404
    Would giving it an overnight bath with dawn dish soap do any good?
  5. hup_d_dup

    hup_d_dup Piano User

    May 28, 2009
    Tewksbury, NJ, USA
    Do they use vinegar or acetic acid? What is the concentration? Do they do it daily (before minerals calcify)? Do they use high pressure? Do they use high velocity? Are the pipes brass or plastic? Do minerals bond the same way to plastic and metal?

    Maybe there are some differences between cleaning a toilet and a trumpet.
  6. tedh1951

    tedh1951 Utimate User

    Oct 18, 2007
    The Wide Brown Land
    Answers to your queries ....

    i. Commercially available Vinegar in 20 litre drums.
    ii. Straight - undiluted.
    iii. Done on a timed cycle - I suspect about once every 500 flight hours.
    iv. Normal differential provided by the system - around 8 psid
    v. Yes it's pretty quick < subsonic though.
    vi. Tubing is very thin stainless steel about .015" thick - tubing is 2" (50mm) approx in dia. and runs almost the entire length of the airplane.
    vii. I can't answer because the system is all metal.

    I would love to give you more information but I am somewhat constrained by commercial agreements between my employer and the aircraft manufacturer - to contravene this trust would break US laws - it's a bit like copyright. You might find some more information on the Boeing website - try My Boeing Fleet if you like.
  7. Gaucho Viejo

    Gaucho Viejo Pianissimo User

    Apr 23, 2008
    Palouse, Washington
    Edited by ROWUK

    No, it doesn't really matter which acid works better as long as you are careful.
    I too have spent a lot of time working on old neglected trumpets. I would have guessed that Schwab probably has as well. I don't mind you sharing your "good experience" regarding mineral build up - I just object to the tone you take when doing so.

    Edited by ROWUK
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 9, 2009
  8. vntgbrslvr

    vntgbrslvr Piano User

    Oct 10, 2008
    Waukesha, Wisconsin
    We could sit and argue between cheap options or we could embrace both as viable. All I think we really need here is a little more info...

    The old pro's use/d Muriatic Acid (HCL) cut 50:50 with water (Not so safe without the proper safety equipment). This would kill all mold and remove most if not all but the worst mineral deposits. The new pro's use a solution I am not privy to, with an ultrasonic machine (not so cheap).

    GZent's solution is the closest suggestion to what the old pro's use, and because of the HCL content will probably work more efficiently, (particularly on mineral deposits) than vinegar....The one thing that's lacking from any of the suggestions here is a neutralizing baking soda solution to neutralize the acid before you brush out the pipes. I would highly recommend that anyone using an acid solution neutralize it with this type of solution, regardless of if they use a vinegar, or HCL based solution.

    Here's how I would decide which option to use....Pull the main slide and look down the leadpipe while holding it up to the light...If there is any build up of solid materials inside the lead pipe, use the HCL solution...If it just smells, but doesn't seem to have a build up.....the vinegar with a neutralizing bath should be sufficient.

    The use of a neutralizing solution eliminates the argument of the more aggressive HCL solution damaging anything long term.

    Both options are simple effective and cheap!
  9. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 18, 2006
    If there is a personal issue, deal with it in a PM or get me the moderator involved. This is a good thread and acid behaviour gets poured down the drain. Please do not pile on or continue.

    We do not need to make the mistake of assuming that we need one solution that fits all. Any warnings about using acid should be carefully paid attention to.

    I have edited all the personal stuff out and expect everyone involved to take a step back, breathe deeply and stop.
  10. crazyandy88

    crazyandy88 Pianissimo User

    Nov 3, 2007
    Fayetteville, AR
    Will vinegar damage the laquered parts of the horn? Or for that matter the silver/gold? I just had a friend ask me a cheap way to clean her trumpet (been a while) and I knew I would find something here.

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