Getting to the next level

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Nealium, Jan 13, 2015.

  1. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Age:
    61
    16,613
    7,957
    Jun 18, 2006
    Germany
    If you don't have a trumpet teacher, a voice teacher may do.....

    What are good lessons? What do we expect from the seasoned professional TEACHER?
    Well, from my side of the issue (I have had great teachers almost my entire playing career - even now!), we expect RESULTS and they don't come from talking or reading. They come from common sense doing. I expect the teacher to set up a couple of logical, monitored daily programs: one for maintenance and one for getting better. I expect continual critical analysis of my playing, rhythm, articulation, expression, consistency of musical judgement.

    I do NOT expect the teacher to be the motivational instance in my trumpet life, I do not expect the teacher to be the reason for a guilty conscience.

    You should all understand that I do not believe that we are all equal and have an equal chance. As a matter of fact, let me go on record as saying that only a few have a snowballs chance in hell of becoming virtuosos. The sooner that we realize who and what we are, the sooner we can turn our experience into FUN at a reasonably advanced level! If life is not good to you by giving you a top player and pedagoge as a teacher, then you better consider plan B. Without proper help or opportunity, the possibilities are limited. In the old days, really good players could get into the military band program and with enough drive, succeed. Those days are gone. You are what you repeatedly do. Excuses are also something that we do. Make opportunities or be content with whatever is left over!
     
  2. FireandAir

    FireandAir Pianissimo User

    106
    52
    Aug 12, 2014
    Gotta say that there's also many, many ways to "succeed" as well. A top soloist might not be able to write a note of music, nor gig easily with others in a variety band. IMO as a decent player of another device and a rank n00b at trumpet, you're best off learning the device well enough to do what YOU want to do with it, and well enough to ensure that you can expand into other territory in the future if the mood strikes. I always think of Billy Joel who says that he realized young that he was not going to cut it as a classical pianist after 11 years of lessons, but he's a magnificent short-form songwriter and lyricist, and his technique is plenty good enough for him to do that (and write) better than almost anyone else.

    Just don't set yourself up with the following two choices: top soloist or FAILURE. Not only are you almost guaranteed to fall into the second slot, but the second slot doesn't even exist. (Said as someone who wishes I had found out that I can compose up a storm DECADES ago even with my "not even in the same time zone as Curtis" technique.)
     
  3. Nealium

    Nealium New Friend

    16
    2
    Jan 9, 2015
    Wow. Thank you for all the words of wisdom here. I'm glad this forum has all of these professionals chiming in. I'll certainly look into Skype lessons. I just recently got a job, and I'm working on getting a bank account so maybe I could get a lesson from Rapa or any of the other teachers mentioned. I've never even considered Skype lessons.

    But I'm sort of with Trickg with my thoughts on this. As my recent all-district band director (brass instructor for Cavaliers, if I remember correctly) said, "I can not teach you anything. I can only give you ideas, suggestions, or new concepts. It's up to you to apply them into your daily playing." While I know a one-on-one teacher will fix any problems, I don't necessarily think I have any embouchure problems, per se. Though, I could be grossly mistaken, I would think my assistant-director would let me know if there was something majorly wrong. He watches me play most mornings, and like I said, he's been a professional and teacher for many years.
     
  4. Cornyandy

    Cornyandy Fortissimo User

    3,139
    1,603
    Jan 9, 2010
    East Yorkshire
    Ah well I'm out on this one, you ask a question get multiple answers the vast majority are telling you one thing, and you pick on the one that tells you what you want to hear. Consider this before I go, this band director you mention may have been speaking of the context you were in at the time where he was not able to be that concentrated as to give you a lesson. What he was saying is true that without your commitment to putting new ideas, suggestions new concepts into practice then he can't teach you anything. (That could have been meant sarcastically or as a matter of fact) I firmly believe we are always learning at this game and even the best tutor is more of a guide than a real do this do that this will work tutor (In fact the better the teacher the more open they tend to be in finding the best way forward rather than following a one size fits all method) I would also beware the band director I am from the UK and looking at your system through Atlantic fog so I will not claim to know the ins and outs of it but I have on here heard some horrendous tales of band directors pulling out unsuitable music and ending up mashing up young players chops.

    As regards TrickG yes he is happy and has carved a niche for himself he is happy with gigging enough to get what he wants out of playing the trumpet. I have to wonder what he would have been capable of with proper tuition from an early age (No disrespect to you Patrick I am just trying to make a point to this young man)

    "Ah well" like I say I'm out go your own sweet way and best of British to you
     
  5. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Age:
    61
    16,613
    7,957
    Jun 18, 2006
    Germany
    Perhaps one last tidbit before I go. I agree with Andrew.

    Idiot is when we don't know better but can't help it because we do not have the mental capacity to understand. Ignorant is when we know better but choose to "ignore" the truth. Smart is when we have options and make something out of them.

    Yes, there are soloists without formal training, yes there are accomplished players that never saw a real teacher. Banking on those odds is not something that I consider when someone asks for help. Good luck. This seems like 99% of the "help posts" here, more wishful thinking than urge to get better. Fine, Not my student, not my problem. Let's just hope that there are no serious flaws in breathing, body use ot technique. That is frustrating as hell in college when time is not as plentiful.
     
  6. Tjnaples

    Tjnaples Piano User

    286
    153
    Aug 30, 2013
    Hawaii
    The last two posts say it all, I bid you adeuces as well.
     
  7. Ed Lee

    Ed Lee Utimate User

    8,040
    2,035
    Aug 16, 2009
    Jackson NC
    As this thread progressed I've been reading it, and at this point I went back and read it again. What I discerned primarily was a "flip flop", some proponents for the need for a teacher, and some more or less non-chalant about such. When it comes to Skype, while such may be beneficial to a few, I don't offer it and my rationale for not doing so has personal health concerns about my own reliability, but also the time and expense commitment of the student and this latter comes down to compare with the ad of: "Is it live or Memorex?" By this then is the expense of audio equipment of professional recording quality that the student would require and not only such, but the acoustics of the place where such recording / transmission originates. Add to that, the diminishment of ISP providers, both on the sending and receiving side and the quality of the sound card in my computer and the speakers, microphone and acoustics I presently have. Need I mention the variables in instruments and mouthpieces?

    Thank you, but it's one on one, face to face or not at all. Too, the lapsed actual time I utilize is one hour and 40 minutes for a beginner to one hour and 15 minutes for an advanced student. However, if a student is NOT practicing at home a minimum of one hour daily 6 days a week, I'll not waste my time or his money ( for personal security to avoid allegations of improper sexual contact, and preserve my long marriage, I will not tutor a female).

    Yes, I attribute what level of skill I have to the foundation as was given me by Dr. Walter H. Cameron who was all, my public school instructor, my private tutor, and my high school band director, who had played cornet with Sousa's second commercial band. In college my professor was a professional bassoon player who also directed the college band. While I will not fault his directing, he wasn't much value to me in discerning my trumpet technique or demonstrating such. When he foisted on me a student trumpet player pursuing a Master's who provided me nothing while he worked on his dissertation, I quit with enough credit for a Minor in instrumental music. I also got my course tuition back.

    Whatever, enough was still lodged with me after a 40 plus year lapse that quickly I resumed playing ... and enjoying it, with disability one of the very few avocations from my past that I can still enjoy.
     
  8. richtom

    richtom Forte User

    Age:
    67
    1,538
    1,273
    Dec 7, 2003
    Georges Mager once said to one of his star pupils, a certain Bud Herseth, "There are no great teachers, only great students".
    Rich T.
     
  9. Nealium

    Nealium New Friend

    16
    2
    Jan 9, 2015
    I'm not trying to pick the answers I want to hear, I'm just picking the ones that apply to my original reason for making this thread. I realize I need an instructor, but that's not an option for me. I want to put in work. I want direction to that work. Right now, I have a few suggestions for technical books, and the notion that my solutions to any problems are long tones and lip slurs. I know that's not the case because I haven't seen any improvement from doing them for an hour a day every day. Not to say there haven't been helpful posts, there have been (I realize that I need to look deeper into my practices and focus on specific things), but I'm getting an overwhelming response "get a teacher". Like I've said, this isn't an option. Skype lessons are a venue, but $113 for Rapa for an hour doesn't fit my budget, and I'm on a computer that barely runs google chrome.

    If you wanted to be helpful, then by all means, make a note to me that I need a teacher. I agree wholeheartedly, and for 6 months, I paid for lessons. I would gladly do so again if my only 2 options were not either across town or too busy/disinterested. I'm done with excuses. That's why I've said adios to one-on-one instructors until I get to college. I want to put in as much work until getting a private instructor, and now I'm getting condescending responses to a question I never asked. I didn't ask "Do I need to get a teacher to get better?" A teacher would help, I'm certain. But until I get one, what can I do?
     
  10. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Age:
    61
    16,613
    7,957
    Jun 18, 2006
    Germany
    Nealium,

    sometimes the truth is simple. You can refuse to accept that and try to reinvent the wheel, or you can accept it and do something about it. Sometimes only very small steps are possible when we are on our own.

    Without a clear picture of what you are doing right and wrong, NO ONE can point you in a better direction. You can't see or hear the things that you know nothing about and to be honest, on the internet we cannot see and hear the things that we do not experience live. I know that there is a generation of people who think that virtual is every bit as good as live, but to be honest, I don't see a run on better players with the "improved" resource". I do keep track of what happens here at TrumpetMaster and can say that very few "turn" anything around with internet advice - simply because most of it has a bit of truth - but no applicability to their playing.

    If your stand is firm, you only have one choice: keep marching in the direction that you currently are. Try to make sure that you have ample time to prepare for whatever you play and avoid things that waste your face.

    Good luck.
     

Share This Page