Giardinelli 512 Sticking Keys

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by loli phabaj, Feb 26, 2010.

  1. loli phabaj

    loli phabaj New Friend

    3
    0
    Feb 26, 2010
    Philadelphia
    Hello All!

    I am a french horn player firstly but have been playing the trumpet as a hobby for about 10 years. A friend in my orchestra recently gave me a like-new Giardinelli 512 which was an upgrade from the barking dog I was playing on before. This trumpet had been sitting in a storage unit for a while and had apparently not been played in a long while. My problem now is that the first and second vales are sticking something fierce. I have oiled them and the mechanisms look good so I cannot figure out why this is happening. I can play for about a minute without them getting stuck and then all of a sudden the first valve gets depressed and won't come back up.

    Like I said, I'm normally a french horn player and I've never had formal lessons on the trumpet so I don't know that much about them other than how to play. Any tips on why this might be happening are appreciated. Also, the valves are in the proper position, clicked in place.Thank you for your help!
     
  2. Ronnman

    Ronnman New Friend

    21
    0
    Jan 16, 2010
    Close to New Orleans, LA
    First try cleaning the valves and bores. I'm assuming you've done this. Then try one of the better valve oils, possibly one of the synthetic oils.

    If these attempts result in no improvement, then apply a small amount of toothpaste and water to the valve itself. Insert in the respective valve bore and slowly active the valve back and forth. Toothpaste contains a small amout of super fine grit and should polish the valve and bore to help alieviate any excessively close clearance issues. Be sure to washout the instrument with water when fininshed and oil the valves good.
    Rono
     
  3. ComeBackKid

    ComeBackKid Fortissimo User

    2,858
    68
    May 11, 2009
    Yorba Linda, CA
    Also, before and after the toothpaste treatment, clean the pistons with alcohol and also run a rag through the valve casings and apply some alcohol and clean them. With the pistons and casings thoroughly dry, insert the pistons and slowly move them up and down and feel for any interference. If there is some, you can "paint" the piston with a black magic marker and then reinsert it. When you remove it again, you will see areas where the marker has been scraped off. That is where the interference is. If it is too great, the toothpaste may not cure it. You may need to take it to a shop to have the pistons cleaned and polished. They can collect residue after sitting for a long time and the clearances may be so small that with oil and moisture in them, they start to bind up. That is why they will play at first but then stop later on.

    There are also several other possible causes for this and there are many threads here that deal with it. Try doing a search (in the top blue bar on the forum screen) and enter the word 'sticking' (search only handles one word at a time) and read through some of the other posts for ideas - such as valve guides that have too much friction (they can be lubed with slide grease).
     
  4. loli phabaj

    loli phabaj New Friend

    3
    0
    Feb 26, 2010
    Philadelphia
    Thank you very much for your help Ronman and CBK. I will try those methods out and have a look at the other threads.
     
  5. trumpetsplus

    trumpetsplus Fortissimo User

    Age:
    68
    3,017
    3,588
    Jun 11, 2006
    South Salem, NY
    What does your repairer think?

    The two strangest causes for sticky valves I have come across are:
    The ports are too sharp - often on Bach student horns, Bundys. Fix - debur the sharp edges and polish the valve.

    The valve felt is shedding fiber occasionally. Fix - discard the pressed felt washer and replace with woven (like on Bach and Yamaha).

    What does your repairer think?
     
  6. loli phabaj

    loli phabaj New Friend

    3
    0
    Feb 26, 2010
    Philadelphia
    I haven't taken it in yet since I have only had this horn since Wednesday. I am thinking of taking a DIY approach using some of the methods posted here. If that fail's I'll take it in since I have a gig coming up soon on the 4th.
     
  7. trumpetsplus

    trumpetsplus Fortissimo User

    Age:
    68
    3,017
    3,588
    Jun 11, 2006
    South Salem, NY
    You play rotary and are are not used to piston valves. The tolerances of pistons are a fraction of the allowable tolerance of a rotor

    I recommend against doing any work yourself - your repairer might have to undo it. Also, lapping valves with toothpaste or any other material removes metal and cannot be undone. This procedure should be the last not the first resort.
     
  8. oldlou

    oldlou Forte User

    Age:
    81
    1,804
    91
    Aug 28, 2005
    Grand Rapids, Mi.

    I totally agree.


    OLDLOU>>
     
  9. trumpetsplus

    trumpetsplus Fortissimo User

    Age:
    68
    3,017
    3,588
    Jun 11, 2006
    South Salem, NY
    I have thought some more about your issue.

    I think your trumpet might have blue pressed felt washers. If it does, all you need to do is clean the horn and replace the felts with Bach or Yamaha ones. This would solve the sudden sticking which you describe.

    Good luck....please let me know.
     
  10. Claude Gnocchi

    Claude Gnocchi Mezzo Forte User

    842
    232
    Aug 16, 2006
    National Harbor Maryland
    ....incidentally, I just picked up a brand new Giardinelli TP512, made in Checkoslovakia.....a fabulous trumpet and quite comparable to another of my favorite horns, the Jaegger "New York." Two great-playing and well-made trumpets at reasonable prices...Bravo Ivan and Giardinelli! More builders need to follow this fine example of providing a very good product at a reasonable price......I see some of the latest trumpet builders and their horns are going for $5-6K!!!!!!! ridiculous.....in my opinion.....:dontknow:
     

Share This Page