Girls

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by T-Money, Jul 1, 2014.

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  1. trickg

    trickg Utimate User

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    I think that it depends on the player. I've carved a niche for myself as a 3rd and 4th book big band player, and I do so with the knowledge that my efforts on those books - the 4th book in particular - can help to determine whether the lead player has a good night or not. If I'm doing my job right, I'm playing in total support of that lead player, and that's not something to take lightly. It may not get the glory of the lead chair player, but make no mistake, it's not a task to take lightly, and needs to be approached with a similar amount of aggressiveness and confidence, because otherwise the lead player doesn't get the support that he or she needs.

    But that's big band. The concert band players who like to hang out on the 3rd cornet book - the ones who hedge behind the part and who you never actually hear - those are (IMO) folks who maybe should consider a different instrument. Yes, those parts are important too, and they can be approached in much the same way I approach my playing in a big band, but not everyone does - there are a whole lotta meek trumpet players out there, and to me, the attitude and the instrument are not a very good match.
     
  2. Solar Bell

    Solar Bell Moderator Staff Member

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    Great observation Patrick.

    In our band, we use 6 brass, real 30s-40s swing band doing the original charts of Dorsey, Goodman, Lunceford, Shaw etc.
    The 2nd and 3rd players HAVE to be there, every tune, every note.
    The two women in my picture are right on the money, always!
    Mary and Amanda make ME look and sound good!
     
  3. kingtrumpet

    kingtrumpet Utimate User

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    they definitely add to the ambience of the pictures --- ROFL ROFL ROFL
     
  4. Jolter

    Jolter Piano User

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    No need for us to bring it up when you keep doing it! :-)
     
  5. Jolter

    Jolter Piano User

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    Patrick, you make a great point here, and I acknowledge that good section players are essential to any orchestra. I aspire to be one when that's what's called for (which is most of the time).

    However, my argument was a different one. Not one of musical quality, but of public perception. What kind of qualities do the public think of when they think of a trumpet player?

    Even great section players don't get to sign autographs as often as the soloist or lead player. The image we have of the ideal player affects how we act in relation to the instrument, and surely affects instrument choice among kids. Remember, most people will hear of Wynton or Maynard, but few know the names of the best section players, even if they've heard them a hundred times.

    (I feel like I'm leading into Foucault's discourse analysis, and this might not be the right place for that, but it is a great tool for understanding how role models and stereotypes play into the construction of a person's identity.)

    A stereotype such as this (the flamboyant trumpeter) becomes self-replicating. Extrovert people are attracted to the instrument, and the stereotype is reinforced when the extrovert become prominent in their field. Meanwhile, the team player (section player) is not perceived as equally prominent. So can we change the public perception of what kind of player is possible? That's the hard part.

    Getting a few female role model players out there is an important first step, and I think that's already happened with the rise of Alison Balsom and Tine Thing Helseth in the classical field (and others have been mentioned in the commercial genres). Ideally, we'd want equal representation so that female players are seen as a normal thing rather than exceptional, but that's a chicken-or-egg situation. Not gonna happen in that order.
    On the other front, encouraging little girls to be outgoing, active and to love the spotlight is a slow process (and it takes a village!), but I think that's important if we really do want to see more women playing. Us guys need to be aware of our own tendencies not to see women (or others who are different to ourselves) as well as we see other guys. We need to actively step down from time to time, to let a girl have the spotlight. Even if she's shy about it, she might do a lot better than you expect!
     
  6. Jolter

    Jolter Piano User

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    Further reading about gender sterotypes and instrument choice:
    http://www-usr.rider.edu/~vrme/v5n1/visions/Kuhlman The Impact of Gender on Students
     
  7. Sethoflagos

    Sethoflagos Utimate User

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    Call me old-fashioned, but personally, I'd find a female version of Maynard a little disturbing.

    But what I find much more disturbing is this idea that "equality of opportunity" (a good thing) necessitates that we all should be equal (just so wrong). Why on earth would anybody try persuading young girls to behave like boys and vice versa? Thousands of years of culture, and millions of years of biological adaptation have made us what we are. If most girls prefer flute to trumpet, what of it? So long as any girl who did prefer to learn trumpet was free to do so, I see no problem.

    One of the biggest influences on my early years was a female trombonist who also taught me maths, ran the school brass band, liked fishing, beer and smutty jokes. Not only was she a very good player, but more than anyone else, she taught me that playing music was fun. Similarly, over the years I've had the good fortune to work alongside some truly excellent female engineers.

    But I've also had the good fortune to bring up both a son and a daughter. They both had the same opportunities to follow whatever interests appealed to them, and without being prompted my son naturally gravitated toward cars and lego, while my daughter developed wyrd fascinations with bathrooms and fluff (I'm serious!). And you know what? They both grew up to be well-adjusted adults.

    Vive la différence!
     
  8. Jolter

    Jolter Piano User

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    Don't say that until you've seen her, you might enjoy it! ;-)

    Hey, who said anything about everyone being alike? Equal, yes, but alike, no?
    I agree, we must let every individual develop as just that, a unique individual with their own traits and preferences. With that in mind, I think we should give every child a hundred possibilities rather than just two. One boy is not like another boy, so why should we assume they all like the same things?

    Please don't take this the wrong way, but there has been a lot of sociological research on how adults treat boys and girls. It turns out that, even when actively trying to treat them equally, we fail to do so, letting our preconceptions leak into our actions. This was proven in studies were adults were videotaped when teaching/handling children in groups.
    Seeing everyone as a person and not as a gender is just so difficult that even professional teachers fail at it more often than not. Since I don't know you or your children, you can be sure I don't mean to imply anything about your ability or good will, so please don't be offended, these are just the scientifically proven facts about parenting in general...

    Also, you and your significant other were surely not the only influence on your children? Their friends, relatives, media, marketing etc, everyone "helps" to push our little ones into the male/female molds. Again, "it takes a village to raise a child".

    It's simply extremely seldom that we know for sure what of a child's behavior comes from nature, and what comes from upbringing. Naturally, opinions differ wildly and these arguments tend to get rather heated, so stop me if I get too preachy... I'll just close by asking this. If it is truly the case that thousands/millions of years of evolution led us to a point when boys like cars and Lego, but girls don't: how did that happen, considering that we only had cars for 100 years and Lego for 50?
     
  9. Sethoflagos

    Sethoflagos Utimate User

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    Please don't mistake me for an idiot.
     
  10. kingtrumpet

    kingtrumpet Utimate User

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    absolutely --- I'm a SEXIST (maybe that makes me an idiot) ROFL ---- but I tend to treat women a lot nicer than I do guys ((well except for those occasional vile, vindictive, and lying woman ----- then I just try to stay "clear" of their pathway)) --- but in general I give women nicer and gentler treatment ------ ROFL ROFL ROFL
     
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