GlObAl WaRmInG??

Discussion in 'TM Lounge' started by Castle Bravo, May 22, 2005.

  1. Castle Bravo

    Castle Bravo Piano User

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    Sche├člitz, Germany
  2. Manny Laureano

    Manny Laureano Utimate User

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    Wait... the air quality is BETTER? But Dan, Peter, and Tom said... wait a minute! The major polluters are Africa, South America, Australia, and India?! But I thought... I mean CNN said...

    Man, am I ever confused. Oh, hey... tell me again: why is it that when we import cars to this country from Europe they have to modify the engines? Oh, that's right, I remember... to make them conform with our higher emission standards that have been in place since the 70's.

    Thanks, Gary.

    ML
     
  3. FlugelFlyer

    FlugelFlyer Piano User

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    Palos Park, IL
    Never let a good story get in the way of the truth. WAIT! I mean... :bash:


    It seems like for every scientist that says the planet will incinerate, there's another that claims we'll all die in an ice age. I figure that the two sides balance out into a (very) happy medium, but we should continue to watch the way we burn fuel and continue to make improvements in the way be burn things (i.e. not as much), not only for the environment, but also for the economy. Ususally decreasing pollution requires greater energy efficiency in the product itself, and greater efficiency means more money in your pocket. That's my take, and I'm stickin' to it! :noway:
     
  4. Manny Laureano

    Manny Laureano Utimate User

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    Mike,

    You're right and that's my point, once you get past my jabs at the mainstream media. The fact is that we have been doing plenty that we never get credit for. It's like SUV's, for example. To hear what people say, you'd think they were huge polluters. They're not. Our emissions standards simply don't allow it. What they are is gas guzzlers which is why I wouldn't buy one. I just don't like paying that much to refuel a vehicle.

    People have a variety of reasons for buying them, and that's very important to consider. I have a very close friend who is a political liberal yet he drives an SUV because it's the only kind of vehicle he fits in! He's very tall and needs to be able to sit for long periods of time in an ergonomically advantageous position. Otherwise, his back gets wrecked and he can't do his job well. But he would rather be sitting in something that got much better gas mileage. It's fortunate for him he has the choice available, don't you think?

    ML
     
  5. trumpetpimp

    trumpetpimp Piano User

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    Maybe I missed something but wouldn't a car that burns more fuel(i.e. guzzles gas) produce more emissions thus being a worse polluter than a car with better mileage? More gas = more emissions. Right?
     
  6. John Mohan

    John Mohan Pianissimo User

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    That's not actually true. While there are Scientists bought and paid for by the oil industries that disagree about Global Warming, the general Scientific Community is in absolute agreement about the fact that it is for real.

    My sister is a Post-Doc at Harvard (Double BS in Biology and Biochemistry from University of Chicago, Masters and PhD in Biology from Duke University), and her lifelong research has been the effects of Global Warming, in particular, the effects of increased CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere and what this is doing to destroy biodiversity in forest ecosystems.

    I assure you, the Global Warming problems we are facing are FAR worse than what the general public realizes (and what the Oil Interests would like you to know).

    Sincerely,

    John Mohan
     
  7. gzent

    gzent Fortissimo User

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    uh, no, it is not in absolute agreement, far from it.
     
  8. FlugelFlyer

    FlugelFlyer Piano User

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    Palos Park, IL
    John, I was being somewhat sarcastic in my above post, more of a color commentary than a play-by-play. I may be stupid, but you know I'm not that stupid. :lol:



    Just another thing to consider though, and I think Manny touched on this. In the above article, it says that because the air is cleaner, more sunlight can penetrate the atmosphere thus causing atmospheric heating. However, I was also tought that greenhouse gases are the primary cause of global warming, a contradictory statement from the above. Again, I don't discount global warming's effect on the atmosphere (we had two major tornadoes near us in Chicago last summer, one I almost made a successful chase out of :oops: ), but the main point I was trying to get at is who uses their scientific skills to produce results, and who just uses their degree to shove their agenda down the populus's throat? I take it for granted that the majority is in the former group, but it's those few squealers in the latter group who give me the creeps.


    I'm no eco-biologist by any means, so take it for what it's worth, just a lay person's opinion.
     
  9. Manny Laureano

    Manny Laureano Utimate User

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    TP,

    I understand what you're saying. Look at this, however. SUV's in a sense aren't big news. Before them we had many gas guzzlers that had fewer restrictions on how clean the engines would burn the fuel. Catalytic converters and all that. Cars when I was growing up were just as bad as today's SUV's interms of mileage and worse when it came to burning cleaner. What's a worse polluter, the car with a crappy carburetor spewing back filth or one with a brand new, well-maintained catalytic converter in addition to the carburetor? I would maintain that a poorly maintained 80's era Honda Civic would pollute as badly as a larger, newer car.

    There's another factor that I'd love to have someone weigh in on and John, if you could ask your sister about it, I'd love to hear what she has to say about the population explosion outside the US and other 0 growth countries. When I was in elementary school, the population of the planet was 3 billion. Now, China and India alone are at about 2.5 billion all by themselves. That's a lot of CO2 being released into the atmosphere that wasn't measured back in the 70's and 80's. Let me go further. We are, in this country, very good about reforestation compared to other places on the globe.

    So, my question is: Given the more than doubling of the population worldwide in the last 40 years, and given the fact that 2nd and 3rd world countries are terrible about replanting, why is there no talk about those factors being equal contributors if not greater to what global warming is ususally attributed to? I realize that there are more animals that breathe out CO2 bred to feed these people also. Are SUV's just an easy target because they are "rich people's playthings"?

    Told you there were fun discussions here, John.

    ML
     
  10. Castle Bravo

    Castle Bravo Piano User

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    I drive a Jeep Cherokee, and I assure you, SUV's are not the problem here. For all of you who hibernate within the friendly confines of the US, take a trip abroad sometime, like to Iraq, or any 3rd world country. Industry is alive and well there, and in some parts of Iraq the sun does not shine. Ever. You know where the factories are!!
    BTW, in leaving the US to check out one of these 3rd world countries, you may need to know that airplanes are HUGE polluters. They burn more fuel crossing the atlantic than you or I will burn in a lifetime.
    I am 100% for oil alternatives, and I seriously think we need to research these options; but like it or not, right now, oil is king. So, the way I see it, as environmentaly conscious, civilized people, we have an obligation to drill for oil anywhere we can. Only we will take the needed environmental precautions in getting the oil out of the ground, refining it, etc., you should see the way these 3rd world industries operate!

    BTW, anyone see the latest news on the tsunami, and the strength of the earthquake that caused it? 100 gigaton bomb?? Man, it is seriously hard to destroy the earth. RELAX.
     

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