Ha annyone seen ...

Discussion in 'Vintage Trumpets / Cornets' started by JohnnyV, Jun 20, 2005.

  1. JohnnyV

    JohnnyV New Friend

    8
    0
    May 6, 2005
    Durant, OK
    I was looking for someone that has or had an old H.L. Clarke model Holton cornet. I would like to find one with all of the origional accesory slides and the sheperd's crook on the bell tubing...and in playing condition...
    Any help would be appericiated!
     
  2. plp

    plp Pianissimo User

    185
    30
    Nov 9, 2003
    South Alabama
    While I can't help you on the slides, I have a 1911 with the sheppard's crook bell, strictly a parts horn with major redrot on the leadpipe and bad valves. The bell is in pretty good shape as far as I can remember, PM me if you are interested, and I will dig it out of the pile of project horns. Comes with the original case, and trust me, it will be in your price range.
     
  3. JohnnyV

    JohnnyV New Friend

    8
    0
    May 6, 2005
    Durant, OK
    HMMMMMM...

    Sorry, but I'm really trying to find one in decent playing condition, and I must have the accestory slides, but thanks anyway! :-)

    I have one that was made in 1925, and plays superbly(I got a first divioson at Oklahoma State Solo and Esemble contest with it!) , but it has no Shepards crook, no accesory slides, and the leadpipe is not origional, but I do thank you, and if I become desprate enough, I might look into it...
     
  4. tom turner

    tom turner Mezzo Forte User

    779
    11
    Oct 25, 2003
    Georgia, USA
    Hi,

    Hang in there! Holton-Clarkes come up on eBay with great regularity and evidently were very popular horns in their era.

    The highest regarded ones have "Chicago" on their bells, vs. "Elkhorn." Frank Holton relocated his shop from Chicago to Elkhorn sometime around 1918 and most of his craftsmen stayed in Chicago.

    However, I'd take a pristine "Elkhorn" over a beater "Chicago" H-C any day.

    Also, if possible, try to find a good one with a complete "kit" in decent shape. By "kit" I mean:

    Original black H-C case
    Both High and Low Pitched slides (if so equipped)
    Holton mouthpiece
    Lyre, etc.

    A complete "kit" raises the value of the instrument quite a bit . . . usually at least $100. From a collector's standpoint, I won't buy a horn that doesn't at least have the original case in decent shape. However, others may feel differently. To me the proper case doesn't just keep the horn safe. The case, in itself, is an interesting thing. Plus . . . ya gotta have those custom, built-in spots for the extra slides common back then too!

    GOOD NEWS . . .
    The Holton "Holton-Clarke" and "New Proportion" horns from that era were not only plentiful . . . but also not quite as highly regarded as a few other collectable cornets with the public . . . at least at this time! This means you should be able to find several decent ones to choose from:

    1. Reasonably soon!

    2. and purchase it at a fine price! (probably a complete kit <$250)


    BAD NEWS
    The "New Proportions" and "H-C" cornets seemed to have a bit of a problem right past the mouthpiece receiver on the leadpipe . . . right past the leadpipe brace. This area would sometimes get stressed and tear or split the pipe a little. However, repair ain't too expensive at a decent shop . . . but still . . . look and ask about this potential problem area.

    I had a decent, but un-restored '17 H-C back in 2001. However, it didn't get played that much next to my super-nice 1911 Boston 3-Star that was fully restored by Rich Ita so . . . I sold it to another collector. If I recall, I paid a little over $200 for it, had Rich do a little work on it, and sold it for about what I had in it +/- a little.

    I imagine a pristine/restored H-C would be a fine cornet indeed though!

    Hope this helps!

    Tom Turner
     
  5. JohnnyV

    JohnnyV New Friend

    8
    0
    May 6, 2005
    Durant, OK
    Thanks...

    Thank you, I got mine from E-bay too!

    I will keep watching there...

    The reason I am so interested in these horns is that H.L. Clarke IS MY IDOL! As well as every other turn-of-the-centuary cornet player
     
  6. oldlou

    oldlou Forte User

    Age:
    81
    1,804
    91
    Aug 28, 2005
    Grand Rapids, Mi.
    Holton Clarke Model extended cornet

    I have a 1920-1922 Holton Clarke Model extended cornet, but, it does NOT have a shepherds crook. It is in the original case, but, it is the simplistic case that was not meant for the carrying of the accessory slides.I have other horns that I enjoy more, thus, if you want mine it will cost you $250.00 plus shipping. The horn has a small dent in the crook of the bell and, is otherwise nearly pristine. The case looks nearly showroom new.
    BTW, this price is NOT open to negotiation.

    OLDLOU>>
     
  7. oldlou

    oldlou Forte User

    Age:
    81
    1,804
    91
    Aug 28, 2005
    Grand Rapids, Mi.
    Holton Clarke Model extended cornet

    I have a silver 1920-1922 Holton Clarke Model extended cornet, but, it does NOT have a shepherds crook. It is in the original case, but, it is the simplistic case that was not meant for the carrying of the accessory slides.I have other horns that I enjoy more, thus, if you want mine it will cost you $250.00 plus shipping. The horn has a small dent in the crook of the bell and, is otherwise nearly pristine. The case looks nearly showroom new.
    BTW, this price is NOT open to negotiation.

    OLDLOU>>
     
  8. ecarroll

    ecarroll Artist in Residence Staff Member

    2,212
    8
    Jul 13, 2005
    NY/CA
    Tom,

    What can you tell me about the Holton (Chicago) Couturier model cornet? I remember a nice piece about the cornetist in the ITG Journal once, but know little about the horn that I have (my uncle's oddly, as my family doesn't have a musical past otherwise).

    Thanks in advance,
    EC
     
  9. tom turner

    tom turner Mezzo Forte User

    779
    11
    Oct 25, 2003
    Georgia, USA
    Hi Ed,

    I once had a Chicago-made H-C, and I'm familiar with the "New Proportion" of the same era . . . but not the Couturier model, unless the "The Proportion" WAS the Couturier model.

    Several makers seem to have made a Couturier model, so I'm not surprised that Holton would make a continuous conical bore too. Like Mr. Clarke, Ernst Couturier was a great soloist who also had horns named for him. Couturier's unique cornet design though was quite something to look at!

    I'll try to check with some of my collector-friends and see what I can come up with. Give me a couple of days.

    Warmest regards,

    Tom Turner
     
  10. tom turner

    tom turner Mezzo Forte User

    779
    11
    Oct 25, 2003
    Georgia, USA
    Hi again Ed,

    I've found this photo of a Holton Couturier model. Frankly, it looks like a "New Proportion," so it may indeed be the same. This model also looks like a Holton-Clarke model of the same era, just with a different bell. Surely there must be other changes too, for this horn looks nothing like other Couturier models I've seen before!

    http://www.cornetsite.nl/index_bestanden/BbCornetsH.htm

    I'll do some digging!

    Tom
     

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