Harmonic between G and C

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Conn-solation, Dec 27, 2012.

  1. Conn-solation

    Conn-solation Pianissimo User

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    In my practice sessions, when doing slurs, I have trouble with the jump from top space G to the C above the staff and back down again. The trouble is not with reaching the C but with a ‘harmonic’ that appears between these two open fingered notes.


    My questions are:

    Is this harmonic a function of design in all trumpets?

    Do some trumpets exhibit this harmonic more than others?

    What design parameters influence the appearance of this harmonic?

    What player compensation methods, other than air support, can be learned to minimize this harmonic?
     
  2. tjcombo

    tjcombo Mezzo Forte User

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    I'm guessing that the in between harmonic you're hitting is Bb. There are three things that my teacher taught me a long time back that work for me. Two are kind of mind tricks and the third is about wind support (I know you said 'other than wind support' but this is so important).
    1. Think the pitch. Hear the C in your mind.
    2. Project the note from your forehead. Lift your eyebrows as you move from G to C.
    3. Give your diaphragm a little "kick" out as you go for the C.

    Just wondering if the C is currently the top of your range or if you have a little headroom above C? Of course all of the above info goes along with the basics of how you're forming you're embouchure and blowing.

    I'm 6 months into playing after a 23 year layoff and found that the more I practice the easier it gets to pick the C rather open Bb. Thinking and hearing the pitch in your head is still vital as you can play more and more notes on open fingering the higher you go.
     
  3. misty.sj

    misty.sj Forte User

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    It's a Bb I think. Check out Harmonic Series Calculator

    I think it will come down to playing the notes individually without the lip slur, having the sound and feeling in your mind, and then practicing. I have been reading about lip slurs and air speed and support are important, and having full command of each of the notes on its own.
     
  4. Conn-solation

    Conn-solation Pianissimo User

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    On my way to Bearberry Ab
    Thanks TJ and Misty. I know the wind support is a BIG part of the reach for these notes. The C is the top of my useable range and I can use it in performance. The D is a practice only note right now and the E a sometime accomplishment although I can squeal higher notes.

    I can tongue the C at will but want to use the slurs to build the wind support part of my playing while also improving my endurance and range. It has just been this one harmonic that is really bugging me when it appears like a 'skip note' during the transition, mainly coming down from the C to the G.

    Thanks for the feedback so far...
     
  5. tjcombo

    tjcombo Mezzo Forte User

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    So you're getting the extra note when coming down? I'm guessing you're tensing up for the C and that tension is not allowing you to drop straight down to the G.
     
  6. BinaryHulledIon

    BinaryHulledIon Piano User

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    I trip over that Bb constantly, especially since the C isn't quite in my real operating range quite yet (oh, I can hit it and the E over it, but not without doing at least three things wrong). Those slur exercises can really kick your butt. I might try working up to it, playing the same harmonic series with different fingerings, so at first it's the f# you're trying to hit while using all three valves, and sometimes tripping over the e on your way down.
     
  7. Vulgano Brother

    Vulgano Brother Moderator Staff Member

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    It is a Bb, yes, it is a natural tone on the trumpet, yes it is supposed to be there, any trumpet that won't play it is unusable as a trumpet. I'm not sure it is an upper register support issue. Slurring from c below the staff to c in the staff has a g in-between, yet can be cleanly performed with practice.

    What we are striving for is an instantaneous rate of change between notes which makes it a lot like calculus. To describe the mechanics of these slurs is almost like explaining calculus to a cat, with the exception that trying to teach a cat calculus isn't going to risk making anything worse.

    Practice slurring clean octave slurs in the lower register until you can play them beautifully, then try to describe how to. It's almost like explaining calculus to a cat.

    Have fun!
     
  8. Conn-solation

    Conn-solation Pianissimo User

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    On my way to Bearberry Ab
    So Tj.... When that C becomes the middle of my range, I won't trip on the Bb....ROFL I can hardly wait.... But I think you are on to something here because I can consciously minimize the 'trip' by paying close attention- I guess it would be to breath and embuchure.

    Still no suggestions as to the part that equipment and design play in this. Anyone have ideas on this part of the equasion?
     
  9. Conn-solation

    Conn-solation Pianissimo User

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    Thanks Vulgano Brother. I've been accused of many cat like qualities before......:D
     
  10. nieuwguyski

    nieuwguyski Forte User

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    It's physics. All brasses have that out-of-tune note. There's no way to design around it, and no equipment will prevent or avoid it.
     

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