Has anybody seen a pocket flugelhorn?

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by gordonfurr1, Feb 28, 2015.

  1. gordonfurr1

    gordonfurr1 Forte User

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  2. gordonfurr1

    gordonfurr1 Forte User

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    What I have been envisioning is CNC machining the instrument from basically two rectangular blocks of brass, in halves, with the valve block built slightly oversized...then the two blocks joined with three valve casing inserts in-state (sort of like the way Olds did the Pinto block, but all the rest of the horn would also be contained within the very tight plumbing layout in the volume of the blocks). A tiny but precise bead of epoxy laid on the thin joining faces between the routings), then the hole clamped together to set with machine screws in various places strategically around body.

    Whether or not one wanted to build in valve tuning, slides (all identical) could be inserted in ports on the sides of the body, the whole instrument tuned just like flugel are, with a mouthpiece/receiver slide tube clamped. Bell could be removeable, or even a tuneable bell used.
    It would basically look like a chunk of brass with a barely visible seam all around the centerline...and three plungers atop with a small mouthpiece projecting toward the player.

    Anyway...that's my visualization. I would enjoy developing it. Laugh if you wish.
     
  3. kingtrumpet

    kingtrumpet Utimate User

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    So quit whining - make one or contact someone like Ivan who can make it for you -- after all anything can be made for a certain amount of money
     
  4. gordonfurr1

    gordonfurr1 Forte User

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    "Quit whining" and it's "other's responsibilities" for taking offense?
    Are you sure?
    Can't afford to pay someone to build one, so I'll have to do it myself.
    And I will enjoy having it.
     
  5. Consordino

    Consordino Pianissimo User

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    Why not order one from Trevor Jones? Or is the price tag too big for the wallet?
     
  6. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    Hmm, the idea of the brass halves for piston valves will fail due to mass, you have to be able to hold the thing. If you were to look at industrial ceramics however, things could get much more interesting. Without valve sleeves you won't get the super slick valve action (been there, done that).

    The biggest problem is the bell. The flugel bell has a fairly rapid flare and you need the acoustic loading to get mellow and still have any type of reasonable intonation and evenness of blow. A VERY mellow cornet may be a better goal to downscale. Maybe even in Eb?
     
  7. gordonfurr1

    gordonfurr1 Forte User

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    Industrial ceramics is a very interesting idea. Molding the majority of the pieces in three chunks...then having the valve sleeve inserts inserted into a very accurate three holes would be easy enough. The steel sleeves Olds used on the Pinto were very thin...maybe .05" thickness...

    Making the body block (that's a great term for it where not only the rough valve bores but the preponderance of the entire plumbing being formed inside three blocks...the valves in the center block, various valve portings in either side, and some length in the horizontal crossovers between the block segments...and then a formed tubular brass bell segment about a foot and a half in total length coiled. The bell assembly could be removable.

    I have an idea about the bell and tube that would help more approximate a flugelhorn flare profile. As far as the ability to hold, the design I have in mind would be laid out to allow a grasp area. Most pocket trumpets are rather unnatural feeling to me to hold. I believe it could be better done.

    Ever looked at the valve body of an automatic transmission? The way I am thinking of tightly forming the majority of the smaller diameter tubing very close around the valve block unified with the valve block sort of reminds me of that automatic transmission valve body. Any tuning slides could be very closely held, and a more normal bell assembly wrapping around axially.

    I just need to make some sketches. A few sketches would surely help me express what I am imagining. I'll try to do some tonight and post.

    Yes, it'll definitely be larger than a pocket trumpet, but nonetheless MUCH MUCH smaller than a normal flugelhorn or even smaller than a normal cornet...especially if it is designed to be a small bore, and maybe even use rotary valves (aside from clunky linkages take less volume than piston valves).

    The proverbial "pipe dream"...
    It IS a glorified pipe, and thus far IS a dream.
     
  8. gordonfurr1

    gordonfurr1 Forte User

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    I'm certain that it would be far too expensive for my dry little pocket, though I would love to work with a builder to make something totally new..and in a totally new way.

    I WILL be doing a little bit of homespun carbon fiber work on another project, and could manually SCULPT the pieces, and then make moulds from my carvings, and then form the actual instrument pieces in epoxy resin and the bell in carbon fiber. That WOULD look pretty cool, wouldn't it?

    I suppose I should even buy an old Olds Pinto for the valve assembly complete with the stainless steel sleeve, an build my mould around the plastic block.

    Please wait for sketches. And I know that it is a very narrow little market, but shoot...somebody besides me would probably like to have a teeny tiny flugelhorn....
     

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