Haydn Trumpet Concerto 1st Movement

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by coolerdave, May 4, 2011.

  1. coolerdave

    coolerdave Utimate User

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    I have been working on the Haydn and have a couple of questions ... probably very common ones to this piece
    There are a few parts when it is moving pretty quick in the upper register (16ths) and the it can sound really sloppy .. is there any technique used to help it sound clean...ie a very light tongue the descending C A G F ... is a monster ..
    also the F-G trill is pretty rough ... my gut tells me that just playing them over and over (both sections) with a metronome slow is a reall recipe for very sore chops and not the best way to approach this.
    finally.. interpretation
    I can play it soft and light ... sort of C trumpet sounding or big and full ... I just wondered if the big and full was really out of character for the piece .... both are fun
    :play:
     
  2. reedy

    reedy Piano User

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    Yeah it can be pretty nasty, I think everyone has problems with that section along with the nasty section at 100.

    its not an easy piece. I would start by going back to basics, open up the aurban and work through the scale exercises, run through the 1st one in each key day 1 then the 2nd one day 2, 3rd one day 3 untill you have pretty much nailed them. Then go to the trills.shakes section and start working through those with a metronome of course.

    the trills used to really tire me out! and I would have no chance of getting the top Eb but I worked on it, and got it.

    with the C, A, G, F bit break it right down, slow it right down and go over it and over it with a metronome. take the 1st one the fgfe and just repeat it making sure you tongue the 1st one, then move on to the fgab and do the same, then put the two together looping them then do the same for the next cagf, slow them down, break it down , tongue them at speed then slur them at speed. go up and down then so f g a c c a g f, up and down until you have nailed it, now put it all together.
     
  3. trickg

    trickg Utimate User

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    Yeah man, there is a trick to all of this. It's a pretty cool technique called practice. It's even said that the more you practice, the better you'll get. Can you believe it!?

    In all seriousness though, part of why you are having issues is that the piece lays considerably better on an Eb trumpet - the F-G trill is just going to be tough on Bb, and the only thing you can do to improve that is to just work on it, slowly and steadily, and build it up the best you can.

    As for cleanliness, again, no trick - just practice and work on making it cleaner.
     
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  4. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    I performed it with orchestra in January on my rotary Bb. The trick was to NOT knock walls down. Chamber music volume is enough. Really bang the valves down!
     
  5. loudog

    loudog Piano User

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    The secret to playing the difficult licks in the first movement is to SLOW THEM DOWN! Play them at half speed, until you can play it perfect. Then click the metronome up one notch...keep doing that until you get it up to full speed. Then do it again the next day. And the next day. And the next day. Eventually, it will be easy. This is called practice. It's the secret to playing ANYTHING.

    Louie
     
  6. fraserhutch

    fraserhutch Mezzo Piano User

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    I like to use alternative fingerings. IIRC, the C-A-G-F run falls nicely for me when I play the A with the 3rd valve.

    I also recall doing the F-G trill with 1 -> 1&3.

    Rowuk has it absolutely right, keep the volume down.
     
  7. coolerdave

    coolerdave Utimate User

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    thanks gentlemen ... I use the metronome technique all the time but was just concerned I would just make my chops raw playing that high over and over.. I will just play it really soft and watch the pressure.
    @Patrick...smarta%## ... seriously thanks, now I can tell my wife I absolutely need an Eb trumpet :)
     
  8. B15M

    B15M Forte User

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    I like to think of the opening like a heavy set tenor would sing it. Full big sound. As you get into it, lighten up. On the 16th runs, think like an oboe.

    The concerto is a mixture of fanfares (like all trumpets of the time were doing) and musical lines that were new to the trumpet.

    Your trumpet is way bigger and more powerful than what Haydn heard, so be careful not to overdo the sections you want to bring out.
     
  9. B15M

    B15M Forte User

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    Why did you pick this trumpet for the concerto?
     
  10. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    I find the Haydn relatively "easy" on the Bb, the sound has a different core than with my Eb - more of an auburn color to the sound which I think is an advantage compared to the glass clear but not so 3 dimensional Eb sound. The trumpets in the orchestra were natural trumpets. I didn't have time to work out the keyed trumpet again and really don't like the way that it sounds. An awful lot of work with real musical limitations.

    Actually, I find myself playing the higher horns a lot less these days. Even Bolero and the Symphonic Dances from West Side Story are more fun on the D than the picc. I use the natural trumpet quite a bit and recently the cornetto a lot more.

    These things just happen to be my current personal preferences. I am having so much fun with the big horns in the groups that I play with.
     

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