Haydn Trumpet Concerto 1st Movement

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by coolerdave, May 4, 2011.

  1. coolerdave

    coolerdave Utimate User

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    @B15M , the only horns I own are Bb
    I was talking to my wife about the natural horns and told her i don't know how they play these pieces without the valves ... I totally get why you would love to play the bigger horns... I would think more options in tone color.
    I always shyed away from the piece even in my hey day of playing but I feel like I am starting to be able to control my enbrouchure more nowdays and wanted to see how it went.
     
  2. trickg

    trickg Utimate User

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    Different bell? I ask that because I recall reading or hearing somewhere that Wynton had a Bach C trumpet bell on a Schilke Eb trumpet - I might have that all mixed up though. (and it sticks in my mind that it isn't terrifically uncommon either - not necessarily a Bach bell on a Schilke trumpet, but just a C trumpet bell on an Eb trumpet, in order to give it a broader sound.)

    Dave, sorry for the sarcasm - I just couldn't help it. :D
     
  3. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    actually, the original Schilke Eb bell is quite big. The difference in tone is partly bell, bracing and partly the length of the air column in the horn. I have a Selmer D/Eb and a rotary Eb by Windisch made in the 50s. Like I posted, the Bb has that color factor, an auburn "sheen" to the sound. Hard to describe - very easy to hear.
     
  4. coolerdave

    coolerdave Utimate User

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    @Patrick... you are a hoot.. I never take offence... but I do laugh alot
    @Robin ... I posted something on another thread about rototy trumpets... tried one out (wrong size mouthpiece,,even though it seem to fit) but it sure seem like it took alot of air to get it up and running... I was hoping to hear what your thoughts were on that. I couldn't even begin to imagine playing one in a performance if they are that hard to play.
    I don't know anything technically about harmonic overtones but it would seem to me that the smaller horns have a tighter cluster and different set of overtones... I feel like it's like comparing a lazer to a flashlight ...
     
  5. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    CD,
    the overtone structure of any trumpet is always basically the same. The difference is the strength of each overtone compared to the rest. The bell shape has a lot to do with what overtone comes out more. Bracing controls the "distortion" added to the sound to give it that metallic "sheen". Bigger bells provide more acoustic support for lower frequencies. Bigger bells are more directional (lazer like) at higher frequencies.

    Rotary trumpets are like any other ones. Each has its own personality. The one I used for the concert was built in 1938 by Heckel of Dresden. He was kind of the Bach of the late 19th and early 20th century. It is easy to play and does not take tons of air to get going.
     
  6. Haste2

    Haste2 Piano User

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    I performed the Haydn first movement for my jury (I'm a college player)... it's the most difficult solo I've played so far, and I've played stuff like Rustiques, Brandt's Concertpiece No.1, etc. Yes, and harder than the Hummel, too. Take the 3rd movement: the "musicality" mostly takes care of itself by simply nailing the notes... but not with the Haydn....

    For interests' sake, here are my jury reviews:

    Review 1:
    +Very nice sound in middle register (work on high sound - shreds a little). Good, strong performance.
    -Think about how you want to shape your phrases - the highest or last note of any given phrase is not necessarily the high point. Work on playing technical passages with grace and not with power.

    Review 2:
    +Excellent job from memory!
    -Some of your hairpin crescendos were a little on the "rough" side. Keep it elegant and efficient. Play within yourself and don't lose control of shapes and phrases.

    Review 3:
    +Good memory! Very good performance!
    -Need to work on an easier approach to the moving passages (triples, quadruplets). May want to address body mechanics and/or posture.

    Review 4:
    +Memorized. Great sound - I could imagine you carrying over an orchestra with ease and style.
    -Be as physically relaxed as possible (left arm) when going to range extremes. If your arm tenses up, it can result in restricting your airflow. Good work. I enjoy hearing you play.

    They also mentioned that I did something odd with my posture: I like kind of would lean forward (bend my neck) a little as I played.

    But I'll also note it was not a good day of playing (my lips were dry and wouldn't work) and I've had a problem with my chops this semester.... so after I take a good break and redo my fundamentals hopefully things can improve....
     
  7. coolerdave

    coolerdave Utimate User

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    @Robin..thank you
    @Haste ... I feel the same way about the Haydn..which is why I steered clear of it. I never felt I could give the listener a good performance. I have been getting a bit of the stiff chop thing lately...probably because I am working so much on improving my chop strength and range. I am pretty sure it is a cyclic thing like like in body building ... build it up then work in the dexterity and suppleness (is that a word?) ...
    Thanks for the jury eval ... definitely things to watch that I might not pay attention to...my wife is always on me about my posture...somethings a DIY could easily miss. I will say that second movement is looking awfully good about now. I frequently record myself (I have a pretty good set up for that) and then listen in the car. It really helps me hear things that need improvement, above just fluffed notes.
    Just for grins, I am also playing it on my student Yamaha 2320 .. the tone is a little more focused, wish it had a 1st valve slide but all in all this is really a fun experience.
     
  8. Agalego93

    Agalego93 New Friend

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    This just so happened to be the audition piece I used for all of my college auditions. I bombed my first audition because I had used so little air and lip pressure out of nervousness that It sounded like your average middle school player. The second one, the judge has been one of my teachers since i was a freshmen,and weeks before the audition we both played it from memory. For the C-A-G-F run, I practiced lip slurs to be more accurate with the partials. Another hard part for me usually is the high E-flat. When I am not warmed-up, its a miracle if I can hit it.
     
  9. trickg

    trickg Utimate User

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    They Haydn is an interesting piece and is deceptively difficult to play well. The last time I performed the 1st movement I was still in high school and although I felt it went really well at the time, I think I'd probably cringe listening back to it if I had a recording of it.

    I never played the high Eb - I always dropped that line down an octave. I felt it was better to play notes that actually spoke, were in tune and were played musically than to force the issue playing it up the octave as written and to hit it with a bad sound or to miss it altogether. I have been lambasted for having that viewpoint in the past, with criticisms that bascially said that if I couldn't reliably hit that note then I shouldn't have played it at all. Whatever - I know what it was supposed to be, but I don't think it was any less musical because I chose to not take the risk. It is what it is though - that was my approach at the time and looking back on it, I'd probably do the same thing knowing what I know now.

    Good luck working it out Dave. If you ever wind up performing it and have it recorded, I wouldn't mind hearing it.
     
  10. brassplayer

    brassplayer Pianissimo User

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    In High School, our section leader was performing the Haydn at local Solo/Small Ensemble Festivals. He wanted something a bit more than just trumpet and piano, so we put together a small ensemble that consisted of flute, clarinet, french horn, piano, and me on tuba. At one festival, our soloist took that same phrase down an octave. I remember quickly glancing over at the Judges and seeing one of them raise his eyebrows in disapproval. Oh well. :thumbdown:
     

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