Haydn Trumpet concerto 3rd movement.

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Trumpet-Golfer, Dec 10, 2009.

  1. Trumpet-Golfer

    Trumpet-Golfer Pianissimo User

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    I opened a midi file of the 3rd movement in Finale Notepad as I would like to try playing some of it as part of my weekly routine; however I noted that the highest note was high Eb which is way above my usable range of G just above the staff.
    I’ve now got hold of a copy of the concerto in Eb major and noticed that the range of the 3rd movement as written is G below the staff to G just above the staff, which is exactly what my range is at present.
    I’m thinking of playing it as written, as it will test me on a number of weaknesses I have in my current playing, like intervals and semiquavers at a reasonable tempo.
    Are there any reasons why I should not try this out?

    Chris Brown.
     
  2. HSOtrumpet1

    HSOtrumpet1 Pianissimo User

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    There is no reason why you shouldn't try it out like this now.

    However, when you actually play it for real, don't expect it to be the same.
     
  3. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    Chris,
    the third movement in the original key of Eb, when played on a Bb trumpet goes from low C to high C. There was no cadenza in the third movement originally, although some players put one in.

    If the part is notated for the Eb trumpet, it will go from low G to G on top of the staff like you say.

    I am not a big fan of jumping into the deep end of the pool. When we do not have the required skills, we "bend" the truth to get through. That trains our brain with patterns of error. Those are incredibly difficult to unlearn.

    My advice is don't do it. Figure out what is missing and work on that. Start playing the piece when you have a reasonable chance of doing it right. Less mature players feel that they have something to prove and ignore decent advice. They account for most of the catastrophe posts here. Turning the brain on first can spare us so much pain.

    There is reasonable repertory for any level of playing. Pick pieces for your level. You will learn more faster.
     
  4. gbdeamer

    gbdeamer Forte User

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    While I think we have to challenge ourselves with increasing levels of difficulty, i agree with Rowuk that we should also resist the urge to bite off too much too soon.

    The warning about developing bad habits this way is spot on. I was fortunate that a school band director (a sax player no less!) saw that I was in such a rush to play like Wynton, Maynard, Hubbard, etc, that I was starting to lose my grasp on fundementals. I was cutting corners and cheating so that i could play fractions of what the pro's did, and I'd consider it a success. He stopped me "in time", but I did create some bad habits (or cheats) that sometimes show up even today.
     
  5. HSOtrumpet1

    HSOtrumpet1 Pianissimo User

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    What do you mean by "cutting corners?"
     
  6. ComeBackKid

    ComeBackKid Fortissimo User

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    I guess I have the same question. Since the OP only mentioned a range issue - which we all have to some extent - what other skills are "at risk" by playing a version that is within the range? I bought a book with Fitzgerald arrangements of 30 different classical pieces including Handel's "Let the Bright Seraphim" and "Sound an Alarm". Some go up to high D. When I started, I could not play any of them - and would drop an octave on the high notes. Now, I can play all 30 (not error-free yet or at full tempo on the fast ones). I have played some for and with my instructor and he has not indicated that I have cut any corners. So it is not clear exactly what bad habits or tendencies result from tackling difficult pieces. Perhaps some examples would clarify.
     
  7. gbdeamer

    gbdeamer Forte User

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    In my opinion playing the trumpet is like most other activities in that there's an evolution involved in gaining mastery. In a best case scenario the evolution is measured over time with gradual improvement and development. For the trumpet (again in my opinion) this includes learning music, embochure, breath control, phrasing, tone quality, pitch center, ect. Some people learn differently than others, and at different speeds, but most of the "best" attain their success through measured discipline.

    How did I cheat? After about 4 years on the trumpet I got bored with scales and drills and started to to play almost exclusively to popular sheets from Maynard, Wynton, etc. As I got some "success" like increased range, my tone quality suffered. As I became pretty good at imitating and playing the tunes i was familiar with (from playing exclusively over and over again) my ability to sight read and transpose tanked. In my efforts to be a jack of all trades I forgot the fact that the pros were able to play what they did because they built on a solid foundation and earned/developed it. I could play pieces of Haydn well (I liked playing up to a high Eb), but other, easier parts sounded like crap because my fingers were crap.

    You have a teacher, so you're ahead of the game. Hopefully the OP does as well, though he asked the question here so maybe not. Again in my opinion, there are plenty of pieces within the OP's current ballpark that would challenge him far better than a watered-down Haydn.

    I could spend all day at the driving range so I can hit a ball 350 yards, but I'd never be a scratch golfer. Same idea.
     
  8. ComeBackKid

    ComeBackKid Fortissimo User

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    OK. That makes sense. Thanks.
     
  9. curdog

    curdog New Friend

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    I don't see any problems with practicing the Haydn T. Concerto even if your range is not quite large enough to play the entire piece. I wouldn't however, try to force yourself to play notes you are not capable of playing yet. Go easy. Give yourself time to adapt. Play the parts your skill level allows you to play. Learn to play them perfectly, and do not practice mistakes. Then, as your skill level increases, keep adding to the piece very slowly. I think, however, you will do best if you continue to practice other exercises and pieces. Arban is, perhaps, unexcelled. You will find that you will slowly learn to play what you desire to play. One teacher once told me a cliche that has helped me other the years: "Yard by yard is hard. Inch by inch is a cinch."
     

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