Help identifying an old trumpet?

Discussion in 'Vintage Trumpets / Cornets' started by JC Nelson, Dec 2, 2016.

  1. JC Nelson

    JC Nelson New Friend

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    Dec 2, 2016
    I'm hoping this doesn't double post.
    We bought this for $20 for my son to mess with. The springs in it are lifeless, the corks are crumbled, and I'd love to replace them, but I don't know who makes it so I can get appropriate ones. Hopefully these aren't too large.

    [​IMG]

    There's several more photos in the library of it, including one of the serial number, which is -186857, but no matter what I paste in to the image box, I'm seeing the same one above (sorry)

    http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w86/xC0000005/IMG_0486.jpg
    image2.jpg

    Jason Nelson's Library | Photobucket
    IMG_0486.jpg Photo by xC0000005 | Photobucket

    Any ideas so I can fix the springs/corks? My son's having a ton of fun with it anyway, but I'd love to liven it up a bit.
     
  2. JC Nelson

    JC Nelson New Friend

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    Dec 2, 2016
    I had this in my post before I lost it, but the text on the horn says "Carlton Standard USA"
     
  3. Gendreauj

    Gendreauj Piano User

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    Aug 26, 2013
    Metro-Detroit
    I am unable to bring up any photos of the corks or springs. Could you describe the corks and springs? One cork and felt per valve? Top springs or bottom springs? I just replaced the corks on my Conn Director and felts on my Holton 602 cornet. Cost me $11.95 and free shipping. On ebay, you can buy corks ,felts and springs separately or in a kit. Depending on your needs not more than $30.00 dollars.
     
  4. JC Nelson

    JC Nelson New Friend

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    Dec 2, 2016
    One cork and felt per valve, bottom springs. The springs are a greasy reddish I would normally call copper, except I thought copper turned green as it got older.

    Let me try again...
    IMG_0486.JPG
    IMG_0482.JPG
    image3.JPG IMG_0486.JPG
     
  5. pss

    pss Piano User

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    Jun 14, 2016
    Luxembourg
    Hi! Some months ago I bought a cornet that people here helped me to identify as a York, Baronet model, stencil (sold under another name, in my case a musical instruments dealer). "Standard" is a common designation for this kind of things. There are some resemblances, the lyre holder, the spit valves, the valves, the bottom springs...
    You can find mine here:http://www.trumpetmaster.com/vb/f140/ludwig-cornet-84847.html
    There is also a link to a Baronet trumpet that maybe looks like yours, but I can't be sure, I'm on a tablet, difficult to open and compare pics.
     
  6. Gendreauj

    Gendreauj Piano User

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    Aug 26, 2013
    Metro-Detroit
  7. Bflatman

    Bflatman Mezzo Forte User

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    Nov 27, 2008
    Manchester, England
    This looks like a grand instrument so I was hoping I could identify it for you.

    It looks to me as though rather than being a Carlton Standard, it could be a Standard Carlton, made by the Standard Band Instrument Company

    I searched amongst Standard, Pepper, Thompson and Odell, and Quinby instruments I have even looked in Vega instruments- all the known affiliated companies and I was unable to match your instrument.

    I then visited the Fisher archive in hornucopia and I saw some similarities with the Fisher Senator and the water key looks like that on the Fisher Benetone. Hardly conclusive I know.

    I strongly suspect that your instrument was indeed made by Standard and then when Fisher bought out the Standard Band Instrument Company, some Fisher instruments were released using parts from earlier Standard Band Instrument stock. It therefore appears to be a rare instrument.

    This is what Hornucopia say about the Standard Band Instrument Company:-

    Thompson and Odell were in business from 1874-1900 as a music store and publishing business.
    The Standard Band Instrument Company was started in 1884 by Thompson & Odell as the Brasswind branch using stock and equipment previously owned by Quinby.
    Their publishing business was bought out by Fischer in 1900, and the instrument production was bought out by Vega in 1909.
    Only a few of the instrument they made were labeled Thompson and Odell. Most were Standard Band Instrument Co.

    I hope this is of value, I think you have a great instrument.
     
  8. JC Nelson

    JC Nelson New Friend

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    Dec 2, 2016
    This has been very helpful. From studying the pictures, it sure looks like it's built like a York Baronet, everything from the water key, the supports, the little button things on the slides, all look like the Baronet one. No, the horn has yet to be completely disassembled and cleaned (we boiled the mouthpiece and that was about it to start), but this weekend I'm going to take it all apart and clean it completely.

    As long as it plays well enough for a student, we are happy with it, so I think it's going to do just fine for us.
     
  9. pss

    pss Piano User

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    Jun 14, 2016
    Luxembourg
    Hi Nelson. If it plays like my cornet, it's a reasonable player. If everything works fine, it will be good enough to start, after you can keep it as a curiosity and to remember how fun it was to identify it and clean it. Still regarding the identification, check the valves and compare them with my pics, it's the best way to identify a horn.
    For the cleaning: I'm assuming this is your first contact with brass instruments, so be very careful, even the smallest error can render a horn unplayable. Search the forum for advice and in case of doubt ask before doing anything. There are a lot of manipulations that may seem to be reasonable but can damage the horn (all of them regarding valves and valve slides).
    Have fun!
     
  10. operagost

    operagost Mezzo Forte User

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    Jan 25, 2009
    Spring City, PA, USA
    I own a 1950 York Baronet, and I agree, the nickel trim and valve block design are a perfect match for yours (don't have access to my pics at the moment, or I would upload one). Being an inexpensive bottom-sprung horn, the valve action is not as smooth as a modern top-sprung or an old Conn, but it's dependable and solid; in other words, a good student horn. It has a rather round sound, like an Ambassador. Keeper.
     

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