Help with Haydn

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Edvard22, Nov 8, 2010.

  1. Edvard22

    Edvard22 New Friend

    Jun 28, 2010
    Hi, i'm in highschool and i'm auditioning for the all-state band in a few weeks. The solo i have to prepare is the Haydn trumpet Concerto movements 1 and 2. Im having a lot of trouble with the range on this piece. Its frustrating because i know i can play every bit of that piece with no problem, but i just dont have the endurance to link it all together. I have been practicing steadily for two months on this piece, but the audition is in two weeks and I still can't play the whole piece in one shot.

    Are there any tips (besides years of practice) that can help me with this piece? I'm desparate at this point. I've been practicing for at least an hour a day for the last month and i've had barely any improvement on my endurance.

    If it makes any difference, i am currently using a bach 5c on a Getzen 900 (the new one).
  2. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

    Jun 18, 2006
    Desperate is not a good thing. It is proof that this is the wrong piece at the wrong time.

    The mouthpiece is of no concern, neither is the horn.

    Not getting through can be bad breathing, bad body use or no logical routine. That would explain an hour a day not helping. Actually, an hour a day is about one third of the amount of practicing that the serious players at your age invest.

    The only real solution is to accept the fact that you will not solve this alone - and get help from an experienced player/teacher. It is not realistic to expect to turn anything around in a couple of weeks.

    I can't believe that the Haydn is the only piece to try out for All-State. Maybe you need to investigate other options?
  3. SteveRicks

    SteveRicks Fortissimo User

    Aug 15, 2009
    Tongue in cheek here -but it might work.

    Get half way through it. Put the horn down and ask if they would like you to continue. Yes, cheating a bit, but you won't ever be playing anything at Allstate that will require that length of playing.
  4. trickg

    trickg Utimate User

    Oct 26, 2003
    Which parts specifically are giving you the problems? Are you talking about the high Eb or the stuff right toward the end? Keep in mind that in a performance situation, you won't be called upon to muscle through the whole thing at once - it has built in breaks with the rests in between phrases and sections.

    Rowuk, I didn't practice 3 hours a day in high school. I might have had the horn in my hands 3 hours total, but I certainly didn't practice that much. I still was able to play the Haydn by the time I was a Senior. The 1st movement was the piece I used for my Solo and Ensemble competition as a Senior, which I won. (Not that I had much competition - the kid who would have been next closest played the Ropartz "Andante et Allegro." Badly. I played it better as a Freshman.)

    But, as we've been discussing in other threads, not every player is created equal - at that stage of development some players need more work than others to be at the same comparative level, and I tend to agree that if you are stuggling, it's the wrong piece at the wrong time. Having said that, it doesn't sound like you have much choice in the matter regarding the works you have to prepare.

    So - work on it the best you can, and relax with it. Try to think of it as music and not as an endurance event. Increase your practice time, but also increase the amount of time you rest - rather than practicing for a solid hour, practice for 2 hours in 15 minute blocks, and rest for 5-10 minutes in between, or any time you feel your chops start to feel taxed. Better yet, practice, getting good rests in between your exercises and efforts, put the horn away for an hour or so, and then practice some more. Sometimes having a solid break of time in between is a great way to let the chops rejuvenate and it helps to increase your overall endurance.

    There is only so much progress one can make in a few weeks time. While a lot of music can be learned and prepared in that amount of time, you just can't expect your chops to develop in that short amount of time.

    So, go for it - restructure your practice a bit to shake things up, and play MUSIC. One of two things is going to happen at this audition - either you will make it, or you won't, and at this point there isn't much you can do to prep your chops - the time for that has come and gone - but with a positive mindset and a focus on making music rather than thinking about it from a chops perspective, I think you stand a much better chance that with your current approach.
  5. BandDirectorChops

    BandDirectorChops New Friend

    Oct 15, 2010
    This is the likely problem, especially having no logical routine.

    And this is the best solution.

    What do you do for warm-ups? What kind of facial callethetics do you engage in? Do you just pound the Haydn for an hour or two a day, getting more frustrated with each mistake and run through, using more and more chop, and then grinding those chops into hamburger?
  6. Markie

    Markie Forte User

    Jan 4, 2009
    Clarksburg, WV
    evard sez:
    Hi, i'm in highschool and i'm auditioning for the all-state band in a few weeks. The solo i have to prepare is the Haydn trumpet Concerto movements 1 and 2. Im having a lot of trouble with the range on this piece.
    I don't know which is worse, doing something dumb or telling everybody about it.
    You know full well you are not prepared.
    Nevertheless, here you are,and pending your inner child hasn't been bruised by the last sentence, here's what I'd do if I were you:

    1)Get with a trumpet instructor to work on the piece
    2)Play it for your family "Daily" just like you would at the tryout.
    3)Don't expect to win
    4)While you are there at tryouts, ask that they write down anything that will help make you a better trumpet player(Free advice!!).
    5)"Always write down in pen or pencil pertinent advice you are given by your teacher the moment you here it".

    You have more than enough time to save face. Now practice,practice,practice!
    Remember, it's not suppose to be easy.
  7. Markie

    Markie Forte User

    Jan 4, 2009
    Clarksburg, WV
    I like the way you think!! Great strategy.
  8. leftmid7

    leftmid7 Mezzo Piano User

    Sep 21, 2010
    Franklin, TN
    I seem to remember for All-State you don't end up playing your entire selections anyway. They have to get through so many kids, they always cut you off.

    2 weeks from the audition there's nothing you can do significantly improve range now. Just be prepared to play it starting from anywhere and pray they cut you off.

    But in the future, there's no short cut for practicing.
  9. BandDirectorChops

    BandDirectorChops New Friend

    Oct 15, 2010
    It's clear to me that you're practicing isn't the issue. It's how you're practicing that is.

    One of my best friends on our faculty is our head girls basketball coach. He's won seven state titles. He knows a thing or two.

    His kids don't come to practice and play pick-up games with each other. They do callethetics. They stretch. They lift weights. They practice mechanics. They practice plays. They practice situations.

    Sometimes we get so wrapped up in "the gig" that all we do is pound the bejeezus out of the literature that we not only fail to make music, but we retard our development. Our practice regimens should be based around things that will develop us technically and musically.

    I can't get my motor started each day without the Colin Lip Flexibilities book. I need to stretch. I need to strenghth train. The Arban scales help with the weight lifting. The Schlossberg studies were meant to do something (can't recall what). Etude books, etc.

    I'm playing the Messiah this weekend. I've been working on it since September. A movement has been part of my daily routine, but not all. We had our first full orchestra rehearsal last weekend. I had no problems playing through it all, even though I'd never sat down and run it from page one.

    There were a couple of details that needed my attention in practice this week. I'm on to other things. I have kids playing the Haydn and Hummel concerti for contest. I've got to work on them, but I'm focused on the parts I struggle with, not the parts that I play well.

    A balanced regimen will give you that endurance, and you'll be amazed how easy it is to get going.
  10. CNYTrumpet

    CNYTrumpet Pianissimo User

    Jun 19, 2008
    Get with a private teacher in your area. Don't skip the rests, use them to take the mp off your lips. Breath more often and deeper, make sure the tank is always filled with enough air. Something that worked for me is to think of the notes leading up to the Eb as one long tone and keep the air stream fast as you go up to the Eb.

Share This Page