help with intonation

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by bilboboone, Mar 15, 2007.

  1. B15M

    B15M Forte User

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    Was he in the sweet spot or did he over shoot it thinking he would crack?

    I know there is no way of knowing.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 16, 2007
  2. bilboboone

    bilboboone New Friend

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    Thanks for the all the advice, I went home last night at checked some things out and if possible, I think everyone is right on this one.

    I was initially looking for help along the lines Tom offered; exercises/approaches that could help me play in the center of the pitch and the center of the horn's resonance more consistently. I'll see ya Saturday and get that info from ya and get you my Bach to use while I fix yours. (Started yesterday)

    But as I practiced last night I noticed that as Manny predicted I had an equipment problem. With the Shilke 15 I was using I was playing way sharp in general and when I pulled out my tuning slide enough to tune my middle C it threw the length ratios out of wack (if you know what I mean by this akward description) making things all funky. I was throwing my slides way out on notes such as F, D and C# to get them in tune and G above the staff was way sharp. I changed back to the mouthpiece I was using before, a Kanstul GIR3m top with a warburton 10* shank and although it still is not the perfect set up it helped match pitch center and resonant center much better.

    Rob, I love Chase's books and have been thinking about buying his Tuning Tactics book. Your endorsement solidifies the purchase for me as soon as I have the $. Skeptical of contact tuners as I have had bad luck with them in the past but if Chase says it works, it must be so.

    Glen, I am aware of using slides and the alternate fingerings for all the notes. I do need to spend more time nailing down exact slide poitions for notes as well as experiment more on alternate fingerings to see which fingering produces the best sound, but overall I do not think this is the area of main concern for me as I already practice these thing and use my slides regularly.

    Rowuk, I'll make that chart this weekend and post here on Monday as well as all the other info you requested and see where we need to go from here.

    Again, thanks for all the help,
    Boone
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2007
  3. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    Bilboboone:
    slow down a bit. A Schilke mouthpiece is very "standard" in length and designed intonation. There is no reason that IT should play sharp in any register.
    If YOU have to pull your tuning slide so far out that the valve slides have to be pulled - you have a very serious body issue/breathing problem or your trumpet is "non-standard". Assuming the former, the tension issues that would make your playing sharp on a standard trumpet with Schilke mouthpiece, will also kill any real pitch center for other notes. A very "open" mouthpiece can give you "fuzzy" slots or targets making you think that you have improved something. Danger signs all over here!
    This is part of what I am talking about. Investing a lot of energy in things not productive.
    I am pretty confident that you will have to spend time on basic breathing/body issues before we work on the other things!
     
  4. bilboboone

    bilboboone New Friend

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    I am pretty confident it is not the horn. Kanstul Made F. Besson M.
    Stamm model with Najoom reverse leadpipe .460" bore which has better intonation than my early 90's Bach strad 37 .459" bore that I never play anymore.

    I went with the shilke because of the reasons you mentioned. I am not concerned the mouthpiece doesn't match the horn, I was thinking the mouthpiece does not fit me.

    Of course now we are entering the arena of many complicated areas. Could it be my breathing, my ear, my horn, my mouthpiece, my body position, the gap between my mouthpiece and leaderpipe, etc. etc. etc. or maybe (and most probably) a little of all the above and some other things that haven't brought up.

    Seems like the best use of my energies would be scheduling a lesson with my local trumpet professor and see what he says. He can actually observe my playing and give a more accurate analysis of the problem. He owes me anyways for the work I just did on his Edwards at no charge.

    Boone
     
  5. Billy B

    Billy B Pianissimo User

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    Maybe it's the gap between your ears. Too much thinking going on here.
     
  6. B15M

    B15M Forte User

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    That was pretty mean spirited
     
  7. Vulgano Brother

    Vulgano Brother Moderator Staff Member

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    A rough, cheap and quick test for mouthpiece/trumpet balance:

    Play a crescendo on an open tone. Play "neutral," not lipping the pitch up or down. Do the same on some other open tones.

    If the pitch remains the same, your combination is balanced.
    If the pitch rises, the backbore is too big.
    If the pitch falls, the backbore is too small.
     
  8. bilboboone

    bilboboone New Friend

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    I try to have no ego about my playing so no offense taken. There is a lot of truth here. Overthinking can kill a person; paralysis by analysis. Hear the note, play the note.

    Boone
     
  9. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    When we deal with pulling your tuning slide out that far, it is NEVER (well almost never) the horn or mouthpiece. They are a predefined acoustic length and will resonate reasonably close to A=440 when only pulled out a bit. Before investigating hardware, go see that professor.
    Whenever I encounter something unusual, I investigate the very basics: standing up straight, full relaxed breathing and simple tone production. Once I am convinced that they are in order, the tongue is next. That continues until all of the "mechanics" of playing have been covered. THEN comes hardware. As I said, the pitch produced is based on the acoustic length of the instrument, unless the "motor" (chops/lungs/body) is twisted out of shape. I suspect this is our plan of attack.
    The gap comment was not called for in my opinion. You are looking for answers and seem open to response. If your brain is in the way, we will find out.................
    Lets attack this methodically, check the basics first. I am anxious to hear what your prof says!
     
  10. Billy B

    Billy B Pianissimo User

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    Now you are on the right track. The fact that you sound fine with other players and when playing with the CD should tell you something. And that something is...........
     

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