High f

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by PINCHUNO, Jun 18, 2014.

  1. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    Knowing what we know about just about everyone that posts on an internet forum, why the hell do we look for a reason to let the trumpet be at fault? I mean, let's get serious. How much hardware is out there that REALLY holds a trumpet player back?

    Notes above the staff require superior BODY USE and consistent intelligent practice, then they become second nature. High F is naturally a decent note when played with the first valve. It is still a fairly strong partial like the F# with 2 and G with 0.

    If it is squirrely, we need to look in the mirror, not in the tool box!
     
  2. Dr.Mark

    Dr.Mark Mezzo Forte User

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    Hi rowuk,
    You stated:
    "Knowing what we know about just about everyone that posts on an internet forum, why the hell do we look for a reason to let the trumpet be at fault? I mean, let's get serious. How much hardware is out there that REALLY holds a trumpet player back? Notes above the staff require superior BODY USE and consistent intelligent practice, then they become second nature. High F is naturally a decent note when played with the first valve. It is still a fairly strong partial like the F# with 2 and G with 0. If it is squirrely, we need to look in the mirror, not in the tool box!"
    ----
    Granted, some might not like these words but I couldn't have said it better myself.
    Bravo!
    Dr.Mark
     
  3. Ed Lee

    Ed Lee Utimate User

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    Playing any musical instrument is like driving a vehicle or flying a plane. These were designed to be played, driven or flown, but you can't play, drive, or fly well until YOU learn how.
     
  4. Vulgano Brother

    Vulgano Brother Moderator Staff Member

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    The way I see it, there is a mind/body, mouthpiece/instrument connection at play. Because the notes above f are more stable, it rules out some body issues (like excess pressure choking the note off. Of mind issues we have the self-fullfilling prophecy ("I can't play the f with consistency.") to consider or faulty "hearing" of where the note really lies on the trumpet. If moving cromatically and playing "neutral" it could well be that the d with first valve, second valve eb and open e are a bit flat and the first valve f is sharp relative to these two notes. The trumpet is not to blame, it is just doing what it does, but if the mind doesn't understand where the f truly lies on the instrument it is going to remain squirelly. This can lead to the "I can't play the f with consistency" mantra. I would suggest trying playing chromatically downwards from the g and seeing if the f doesn't then sound. If that works, then we can imprint that f as the trumpet wants to play it.

    To dismiss the trumpet, to ignore its function as part of the equation kicks a leg out from under the mind/body, mouthpiece/trumpet connection.
     
  5. trumpetsplus

    trumpetsplus Fortissimo User

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    Unfortunately, too much. Especially in the entry level market, where the last thing beginners need is equipment that is just too hard to play.

    I acknowledge that this is hardly a statistical sample, but several years ago the store I was managing supplied superior trumpets for new renters. That year had, by far, the highest retention rate. Less than 10% returns, as opposed to typically over 40% in previous years.
     
  6. trumpetsplus

    trumpetsplus Fortissimo User

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    Absolutely. We are dealing with a "closed loop" system which relies heavily on the instrument communicating back to us. Different to, say, a synthesizer into which we only need input finger pressure on the key.
     
  7. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    When only an F is bad, I will question the qualities of players ability to play higher regardless of what is claimed on the internet. No trumpet stops communicating at F above high C. The claim makes no technical sense.

    I have played a lot of horns with funny notes. Between high C and G, NONE of them had "holes" in the response. Blaming the hardware just does not cut the mustard.

    Perhaps we need to more clearly define methodology to clear stuff like this up.

    1) if a note seems strange, try again tomorrow after a hot shower
    2) if it still feels strange, let a friend try
    3) if they think it is strange, we still don't know if the power of suggestion is playing tricks, let a pro (with a good upper register) try it WITHOUT knowing anything about the issue.

    If the pro says that the thing is strange, then it probably is. I think the chances are close to ZERO that the F is a problem. An octave lower, yes as resonances in the instrument can play funny tricks. Those resonances disappear after high C.
     
  8. kingtrumpet

    kingtrumpet Utimate User

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    no, I didn't misunderstand ---- what I was saying is that the F, G, A, etc. are decent notes --- when you don't try to SCREAM them out. I am not saying they have to be pp either. Sure, I may not get the volume of Maynard --- but I try to get the notes to sound the same volume, and with good sound ---- and in this way, I don't see my trumpet as a limiting factor above F --- certainly not until above the A above the high F (beyond that, I can only get decent sound on the soft side of sound) -- so far
     
  9. Vulgano Brother

    Vulgano Brother Moderator Staff Member

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    Open d above high c and second valve c# are both common fingerings.
     
  10. kingtrumpet

    kingtrumpet Utimate User

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    I have used the regular fingerings of the octave below --- and have had good success (above high C -- D(1), E (0), F(1), G (0), A(1,2), B(2), DHC(0)) --- but then again this is in the 1,000's of hours range, and lots of ear training, and using the tuner -------------- this seems to go well across the many different trumpet makes I have
     

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