High notes really are a trick.

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by Local 357, Sep 13, 2012.

  1. dorkdog

    dorkdog Pianissimo User

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    I'm a noob and can barely get above the C in the staff... with any tone. But I have noticed that for me it is easier to hit those notes piano or even mezzopiano than full force. I don't really seem to need much air once I figured out it's less stretching and more scrunching of the lips for me.

    I'm taking it real slow, just playing my scales and going for that next note. Being a bari player from way back when it is a different strategy. Once I figured that out, it's been much better.
     
  2. ultratrumpet

    ultratrumpet Piano User

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    Claude Gordon wrote:
    "Don't worry about high notes. High notes are inevitable if you practicing correctly. They'll develop right along with the rest of the machine."

    Claude Gordon and Herbert l. Clarke have produced more great players than all of the rest combined, by far.

    Clarke - Setting Up Drills / pages 3...
    Gordon - SA / pages 5 - 10
    Brass Playing Is No Harder... pages / 1 - 35
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2012
  3. watchguy44

    watchguy44 Pianissimo User

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    I'll. never forget the day I got to that elusive C...I was in high-school in a practice room playing my scales an octave higher, (just to see if I could) and by that Friday I just pushed up there and squeezed it out.....and that started the whole deal of high note playing. Two months later and it was never a problem to hit it fully.....problem was it would not be in tune, just a little flat. Got there on an Olds Special......but peeled paint with an Olds Super and the Yamaha 2320.
    I still visit the stratosphere but not as often....how I miss those days.
     
  4. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

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    Yeah, isn't it great the sense of euphoria you get holding one of those bad boys out, just to the point of seeing little black dots in your visual field prior to passing out! Man what a rush! Why, why, why anyone would want to take mind altering drugs when you can get a natural quit high by just playing the trumpet.
     
  5. JNINWI

    JNINWI Piano User

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    If you want to call it a trick, I guess that’s ok. It took me a long time to learn the “Trick”. To me it’s playing correctly more than a trick that will do it for you, getting rid of all the bad habits. If you visit Local 357’s page on ZEV and T/STF, That IS how you achieve the notes you talk about, along with patience, practice and perserverience, and it will come. Without those three P’s, you can forget about those notes.
     
  6. dorkdog

    dorkdog Pianissimo User

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    I've looked at these and they are pretty interesting - my take on them? IMHO this 'theory' is indeed steeped in fact. Like many scientific laws in the past, Local 357's post on T/STF is a version of the theory of resonance. In any physics classroom where they are discussing resonance and vibration the topic of damping comes up. In a guitar for example, much care is given to the string's endpoints; the nut, saddle and frets. If these are not in perfect order the string does not ring true. I suspect the same could be said for one's embouchure - the end points are where the lips are fixed in position and the string is analogous to the lips inside the mouthpiece. The lips inside the mouthpiece have to resonate at the proper frequency AND the lips outside the mouthpiece must exert just the right amount of force to hold that tension with the proper damping...

    Underdamped - lips too loose outside the mouthpiece - like having a weak nut or fret on a guitar - vibrations are 'thudded out' and a lot more effort is required to get them out the horn.

    Overdamped - pulled too tight - here, the tension of the lips outweighs that of the mouthpiece, and the lips slip out from within, making the inside lip difficult to vibrate - this causes pinching and harmonics.

    Critically damped - this is the sweet spot, where the tension outside the piece causes just the right endpoint to the inside lip. The inside lip vibrates freely within the band of resonance for the horn, and it becomes easier to play ANY note.

    Does that about sum it up or am I off base? I know for me this realization (through Local357) has allowed me to understand what I am doing right when I inadvertently hit a HIGHER note than the one intended; it becomes easier to repeat that mistake and make it a choice.
     
  7. JNINWI

    JNINWI Piano User

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    In that plucking a guitar string and playing a trumpet are such different processes, I have a hard time wrapping my head around the thought that these are the same, Although I do agree that the process of creating a frequency is simply vibration. I do feel the same about finding that sweet spot though. It looks to me like you have it covered. : )
     
  8. kingtrumpet

    kingtrumpet Utimate User

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    yeah!! -- and tell me which trumpet player in this big world was NEVER AT THE POINT YOU ARE??? we were all there, hang in there --- slow and steady --
    and maybe that Clark dude was right, the high notes come in time ----
    FOR ME, I have to utilize long tones, lips slurs -- things outside of the Clark book --- but I am sure some people have had success with Clark
    patience, practice, and perserverance --- YOU dont' get anywhere without that --- and 1,000's of hours of face to lip time -- keep it going, my friend, you are well on your way
    LIKE I SAID YOU ARE NOW AT THE SAME POINT AS A MAYNARD FERGUSON, A DOC SEVERINSEN, A WINTON MARSALIS ---- at one time they were struggling with a note, even the C in the staff!!! but that didn't stop them
     
  9. ultratrumpet

    ultratrumpet Piano User

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    It takes a lot Patience, Time, Determination and PRACTICE. In my case, for a long time, I didn't know how to practice correctly to develop my upper register. Then in the late 1960's I learned about the Claude Gordon method. Do you want to play one little DHC just to be able to say you did it or would you like to play strong DHC's for many years? If that's what you want, then the more gradually you progress, building from the foundation one step at a time, the more surely you will reach your goal.
    O4702 - Systematic Approach to Daily Practice for Trumpet: Claude Gordon: 9780825832888: Amazon.com: Books
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2012
  10. nieuwguyski

    nieuwguyski Forte User

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    The Claude Gordon stuff doesn't work for everybody. I studied diligently with a "CG certified" instructor for five years, and only started gaining range when I started ignoring his advice and thinking about what my chops were doing. I play every week with a buddy who manically did the CG regime for seven years, and he still doesn't have an E on a gig.

    This isn't to say that there's no value in the CG approach, but it simply doesn't work for everybody.

    I have other examples, but decided to lay off.
     

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