Higher Range Easier with Alternate Fingerings?

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by BigSwingFace, May 6, 2013.

  1. BigSwingFace

    BigSwingFace Pianissimo User

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    Hi All,

    This is my first post on here. I have searched for my specific question in other threads and couldn't find it, but I apologize if this has already been discussed.

    I play on a Kanstul 1600 with a GR 64SZ mp. For probably a year or so I have been "stuck" at a G above high C. No matter how easy the G gets I cannot produce an A that feels solid and real. That was the case until recently when I just happened to try playing the A with the 3rd valve - it came out as clear and full as any other note I play. What's going on here? Is it a reflection of my technique, my horn, my mp, or some combination of it all? I'd like to learn more about this as sometimes I feel like I'm doing everything correctly and have never been able to play the illusive double C. I've talked to several players who use alternate fingerings for tuning purposes but have not encountered anyone who could ONLY play to a certain range by way of alternate fingerings. Any stories or advice? Thanks.
     
  2. tobylou8

    tobylou8 Utimate User

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    That is an alternate fingering for any 1-2 valve combination (A,E,C#). I will use that sometimes if I'm not playing fast passages. Nothing "wrong" with it if it's in tune!
     
  3. JNINWI

    JNINWI Piano User

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    This has been my experience. I play a 1600 also, older WB model. It’s not the horn as much as your “Set”. Example, if I’m set correctly, my A is in tune using 1&2, if I am not set right, (compression, relaxing, minimal pressure) I have to use 3 or all open to get it centered, (It’s a red flag for me and makes me start yelling at myself : ). High A’s are a tough break point in partials on any horn, it’s inherent in the design. (Ever notice the A above the staff can be played easier in tune using the 3rd valve). Horn / Mouthpiece combinations can improve this, or make it worse. You may find a horn that does not have this although they are far and few between. It’s the same on a Double C, the next partial up is the Double G, everything in between these two are a pain to center. This works the same for me no matter what horn is on my face at the time. Food for thought : ) So, are you starting to see it…..high G to Dbl C is the partial, Dbl C to Dbl G is the partial……everything in between is a pain to center….Any valve combination that centers the note for you may get funny looks from other trumpet players, but will not EVER be questioned by a conductor, right !
     
  4. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

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    You know, as JNINWI states, something magical happens in slotting with alternative fingerings in the higher range. From my experience, it is not so much horn dependent, but perhaps a characteristic of the Bb trumpet. I am using more and more false fingerings as my range continues to expand in the upper extreme with increasing confidence and sense of know what will better slot an when. It is becoming more a personal Zen thing, than anything I could describe or write down in a "how to" manual.

    I think the fact you can hit the 3 valve A over the 1,2 valve A may relate to this. But there really should also not be THAT much of an different in effort in hitting that 1,2 combination either. Perhaps, some of this is more directing your air flow into the depths of the cup (kind of using the Tobylou coffee swizzle stick concept - really like that one Tobylou), to work better with a resistance that the 1,2 combination my have over the 3rd valve inherent characteristic of the instrument.
     
  5. tobylou8

    tobylou8 Utimate User

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    Another thought could be that the node centers better in the third valve due to it's position to the leadpipe. Just a guess and I'll leave the science of that to the Rowuks of this forum.
     
  6. Vulgano Brother

    Vulgano Brother Moderator Staff Member

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    It's a physics thing, that has to do with the bell flare and the effect upon standing waves in the instrument. In other words, the trumpet is good at providing our lips with feedback to keep the note going until we get too high. Then, rather than bounce back and forth inside the horn, the wave leaks into the room, the trumpet acts like a megaphone and it is pure strength that gets those notes to sound. Like many players, I find the C above the C above the staff easier to play than the G#, A, etc. above the C above the staff.

    Word on the street is that Chase used 123 for his A's but Maynard was haphazard. Experiment, and have fun!
     
  7. BigSwingFace

    BigSwingFace Pianissimo User

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    On that note I wonder whether my embouchure/air is capable of supporting and playing a double C but haven't been able to make my horn cooperate. I suppose that's a bad mindset to get into, though...otherwise you'll find me in a supply closet testing a dozen horns searching for a double C.
     
  8. JNINWI

    JNINWI Piano User

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    When you have the air control from the GODS like Maynard and Chase did, valves are unnecessary up there and just get in the way. You don’t need valves from C above the staff to G, try it…. If you have the notes centered into muscle memory, that’s all you need….above that can be a different story. Now....there IS some high note cream available... at a substantial price : )
     
  9. tobylou8

    tobylou8 Utimate User

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    I have done that and was told I was wrong to do it. I asked the critic to "show me" the correct way and the conversation ended! :D
     
  10. gmonady

    gmonady Utimate User

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    I believe you are referring to blood.
     

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