Holton Super Collegiate Trumpet 1st valve needed.

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by mlhend2002, Dec 30, 2008.

  1. lovevixen555

    lovevixen555 Banned

    623
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    Nov 5, 2008
    Michigan
    A lot of places are like that. In fact I find it so frustrateing that so many companies only sell through their dealer network or other restrictive companies that at times I wish they would go out of business! I absolutely hate 99% of instrument sales models. Any time you have to go through a dealer network you as the consumer get your wallet raped! I too have been looking at some valves one place that will sell to me want's $35 for them another BandSupply place wnats $69 for the same part and they have the nerve to tell you that you are saveing something like $20 or $30 off MSRP when you contact the company directly to ask about purchaseing the part's directly you get told to see their local dealer or repair facility. Since my local dealer is Marshall's Music they would probably want $120 per valve just because they are always insanely over priced on everything! This is not in reguards to the Getzen by the way it is another trumpet that a friend wanted me to look at.

    So for me I have decided to do as much as I can myself and invest in tools supplies as oppossed to giveing my money to over priced retailer and repair facilities. I am sure if you look around enough you can find one on ebay or on craig list or if you call various repair facilities they might well have one lieing around.Places that do a lot of restoration work will be your best bet. I find part's all the time this way and usualy at a great price.

    I also have decided for the most part that when other options exhist for part's other then OEM to take them. SO I have no problem with the idea of putting a Bach Strad bell on a Holton T602 or a Martin Commettie bell on a Jupiter or what ever comes my way! I am int he process of saveign up to get a three point dial indicator bore guage along with chemicals and supplies for copper and nickle plateing so I can rebuild valves myself.

    I hate feeling victimized by the musical uinstrument and repair industry. Their are some great technicians that do great work at a fair price but most of them are so insanely over priced that it is almost offensive. Their is absolutely no reason at all for a valve job to cost $495 or more. Their is no reason for silver plateing an instrument to cost $600+ etc.....$30 to remove a stuck tuneing slide is just laughable you can buy the slide hammer and attachment's for just a little bit more then that yourself. It is a a 30 second job witht he right tool. I understand we all want to make a liveing but come on!!! How about we not milk people for all they are worth. It pays to shop around because their are some really really good shop's out their that have reasonable prices but they are not easy to find and usualy have awful web sites!

    Are you completly missing the first valve or is it just worn out?
     
  2. mlhend2002

    mlhend2002 New Friend

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    0
    Dec 30, 2008
    Salisbury, NC
    I would greatly appreciate it you would check on the availability of the first valve. The first valve stem was seperated from the bottom section and the end was flaired some. It is very tight in the valve casing now and doesn't move at all up and down. I had asked the instrument repair shop to possibly polish or lap in the valve bring that it isn't that far off, but he said this would only allow air to escape around it and loose compression and sound. When I first bought the trumpet the first valve was tight and I had to work it in by hand with oil. It didn't that long before it moved freely with only a very faint scuff. When I sold my Holton Al Hirt special it still played like new, even with major scuffs on the valves from all the hours I had played on them. I cleaned and put valve oil on them before each time I played it too. Would I really loose that much compression with a small scuff from lapping in the valve?
    The Holton collegiate listed above has the tricolored pattern as my son's super collegiate. Did Holton Make just a collegiate with the tricolored finish?
     
  3. MFfan

    MFfan Fortissimo User

    3,247
    91
    Sep 13, 2006
    Kalamazoo, Michigan
    Apparently so, I have seen several made after the original run, they also made a two color one also. Exact info is hard to come by now. Member Newguy knows more about them than I do. He has a matched pair of a Super cornet and trumpet.
     
  4. lovevixen555

    lovevixen555 Banned

    623
    5
    Nov 5, 2008
    Michigan
    I do not know that I would agree with you in some reguards. I do of course understand that the devil is in the details!!! Long before the tuner craze took off in the USA I had my own shop specialiseing in imports and more tot he point tuneing them for maximum performaces and handleing. SO trust me understand what you mean. It is not always true though that you get what you pay for. My local repair facility which does not do any custome work at all just repairs does great work. In fact many many people from around the state send their instruments to them to be worked on because they do great job and for the most part their rates are slightly less then the norm in my state for repair facilites. They want $100 to replace a leadpipe on my Reynolds and that did not include the part's. I found a place that does almost nothing but custome build's and they will do it for $30. The place that does the custom work is well know in the industry for building custome trumpet and serviceing high end clientel. So on one hand I have a world renowned shop that will do the work for $30 but my local shop that also does good work want's $100. That is a $70 difference inthe price of the service and both places are easily able to sweat a leadpipe on! I did it myself and it took me 2 minutes to get the old one off and 5 minutes to get the new one on in a neat tidy manner. I had to redo it twice because I made a mess the first time around.

    Anderson Silver Plateing will do my valves for $350 I think it is and that is complete from start to finish. The valve Dr. ont he other hand would want $495. If I recut the valve mateing surface myself and send the valves to Anderson myself with the final size I need they will build them up to my specifications for around $25 a valve.

    I am not advocateing that everyone should do their own work. I know plenty of ham fisted people like my Father-In-Law that should not be allowed near a tool box let alone anything that has more then one part makeing it up! In fact people warn you that if you let Gary bowwer something make him promise not towork on it if it breaks down! Often times he would make matter worse. My youngest brother in law on the other hand could probably build a better trumpet then most professional in less then a month if he had the motivation. He is going to school for engineering but already has a boat load of practical experince from developing systems for handicaped people. So their are number of types that play instruments and I am glad their are professional to keep all the intruments running smoothly for those that will not or can not do their own work. I just think that each job they do does not need to be so high as to put braces ont heir kids teeth with one job!

    I for one would not replate an entire instrument on my own even if I had a plating machine up to the task. I understand full well how much detail work must be done before that intruments part's ever hit the plateing solution! This is why I also do very little body work on my car's rebuilding a transmission is a straight forward process and everything has it's place and can be checked with diagnostic or measureing equipment but body work is more about how well you can judge dpeth variations basedon shadow's and light touch etc......You can do everything techicly correct and still end up with a panel that is not fitting quite right etc.....

    Personely I think most of the music industry is like the wild west where prices for products and services can vary wildly from one shop to the next. THe price of new instrument can vary from $500-$1500 from store to store ont he same model. A 5 minute job at a repair shop can vary from $30-$100 with no ryme or reason behind the priceing. In fact the shop that does the most custome work was cheaper then the shop that is swamped with routine repairs!

    I think that most places are not too worried about repaet business and their business model reflects this! Most shop's figure that you will not be back again since for the most part new instruments barring manufactureing defectsd will normaly last longer then their owner will own them. So they figure they might as well get you for all they can since they will not see you again anytime soon. I think this is reflected in what you see on ebay as well. Usualy the high end professional models even if better then 40 year's old still look like new in terms of valve and tubeing specifications if they are showing wear it is only in the lacquer. On the other hand a student trumpet that is 4 year's old may or may not be mechanicly sound and almost always have damaged bell's, red rot in the leadpipe and either second valve tuneing slide is damaged or the end of the bell is damaged. So I guessing if not for beginning band students their would not be a lot of repairs to be had.

    You see the same mindset on the rental side cheap garbage that is grossly inflated is sold to unsespecting parents as a top of the line student instrument. No one does that to someone if they want to get more of their business latter on down the road. It shows quite clearly that all they are worried about is today and not tomorrow. I am guessing more then 1/2 of the kids that join band do not stay in band judgeing by all the like new instruments on ebay.

    I just checked and I can get a three point bore guage inthe range most suitable to trumpet valves for $49-$79 depending on which company I choose to use. Once I own that tool I have it forever and can use it for anything that I might need to use it for on car's or machines or more trumpet's? All I am saying is that it does not hurt to shop around and it never hurts to invest in your own knowledge and a well stocked tool box is always handy!

    I also understand why they do as they do but that does not mean I have to like it or agree with it. It goes against all that I believe in and creates an us versus them mantality. The customer should never be seen as a mark! I worded on the sales side of the auto industry for a while when I wanted to explore sales oppertunities. The money was great but the mentality was definately one of us v.s. them and customer's where definately their to be fleeced for all they could afford! After about 9 months of that I could not sleep anymore. I got tired of being asked to ring more out of my customer's a fair profit was not good enough they wanted to get as much as they could from each customer. Their where even bonus's for when we sold a car above the advertised sale price or when we where able to get the customer above the already high MSRP. The bonus's for doing those two things alone where huge! It was not uncommon to send another sales man outside to take the sales add's down or out of a car or SUV before the customer was taken out their so they would not know that the vechile in question was on sale.

    I suspect the main reason so many trumpets are on Ebay is because many people have gotten super high quotes on what it would cost to fix it so they just sell it on ebay.
     

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