Holton vs Reynolds cornet: easy vs hard

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by DiaxII, Apr 11, 2012.

  1. DiaxII

    DiaxII Pianissimo User

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    I'm an amateur player and I don't practice regularly, only when I have enough time. I manage to practice several times a week. I have two student horns: a Holton cornet made by Yamaha and an older Reynolds Medalist cornet. Both seem to be in perfect working order with good compression.
    One is at the place I live(Reynolds) and another (Holton) at a different place that I visit from time to time.

    I notice a significant difference between how two horns affect my endurance. Reynolds feels very free blowing and tiers me up pretty quickly. Holton (Yamaha) on the other hand gives me some nice resistance and feels 'easy blowing' because of that. I can play it much longer and by the end of the practice session I can still -play- notes whereas with Reynolds by the middle of the practice session I can only -squeeze out- notes.

    Any idea why that may happen?
     
  2. Dale Proctor

    Dale Proctor Utimate User

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    Could just be different design parameters between the horns, or the one that tires you could have some mechanical problem, such as a leak or mis-aligned valve ports. Sometimes when you play multiple horns on the same mouthpiece, the mouthpiece may be more suited to one horn than the other(s). Stuffy horns can be opened up with a more open mouthpiece, and too-open horns can have a little more resistance with a tighter mouthpiece. Just some general observations here, but maybe they will get you thinking.
     
  3. study888

    study888 Mezzo Forte User

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    Hello,the Reynolds may have a truer Cornet bore size of .468 and the Holton could be a smaller bore size of say .459. Along with the other variables mentioned by Dale.

    I did not know that Holton Horns was ever made by Yamaha Horn company. I thought that Holton was bought out by Conn Selmer UMI.

    If you could try the Stork Cornet mouthpieces. They come in a #27 throat bore size. If you wish to open up the blow on the Holton Cornet. Kanstul has the CGP V cup and CG3 Cornet M.P.'s with a larger more open mouthpiece throat.

    If the Reynolds Medalist is in very good condition,these are very good playing Cornets. Shown as a student Cornet,but are closer to a high end intermediate type Cornet. Certain year makes and the ones made by the Blessing Horn company, are the most preferable. You can do some research on this site about this Reynolds Cornet model.

    Contempora Corner internet site has all the info. on the various Reynolds Cornet models and specs. Enjoy your cornets and good luck with your practicing.
     
  4. trumpetup

    trumpetup Piano User

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    I agree with both answers given. Maybe the Holton just works better for you. Some people like it free blowing and some people like a little to push against. I do better with a little resistance.
    Bobby
     
  5. acarcido

    acarcido Forte User

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    At one time in the long ago past, I would prefer some resistance to help me sustain long passages. As time passed and my emboucher was strengthening, I was given lead parts that would keep pushing higher and high for entire passages. Eventually, this led to limitations when pushing above the staff for long periods of time. My endurance suffered as well as my ability to play higher notes above the staff louder. So there are those issues you might have to deal with too. Try playing one for a week straight and then switch to the other and see which one you like best. Best of luck.
     
  6. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    The blow that we THINK that we have is most of the time something completely different.

    Take your favorite horn and play it in a nice sized hall - fun huh? Then go outside and play the same pieces. Pretty stuffy in comparison!

    Amazing how the same horn mouthpiece and lips can give such different results. That explains most of what is happening. Some horns are built so that we hear ourselves more easily. Some rooms let us hear ourselves easier. If we practice in a small bedroom with heavy drapes, carpet and bed to dampen the sound, life is tougher on the mouthpiece end of the horn. A nice living room can make our day.

    Moral of the story: don't worry about hardware. I would tell my students to trade the location of the horns first and see what happens. 8 times out of 10 the location is the problem. I would also suggest only practicing softly with the tougher combination of location and horn. Then you keep your endurance and learn to let the lips speak at lower volume levels.

    One other issue is that you are used to the instrument that you play most. The other one gives your ears different information and that confuses the brain.
     
  7. the newbie

    the newbie Pianissimo User

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    Rowuk that is genius! never in a million years would i thought of that! I tried in my room instead of playing into the corner where my music stand sits i turned around and faced the window and the sound and effort changed noticeably for the better.
     
  8. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    I am a bit more careful with superlatives......

    I do NOT advocate playing into a corner. Those that have studied how we hear are aware of an effect called early reflections. These are reflections that reach the ear at less than 10ms (approx 10 feet). Our brain does not have the horsepower to sort those reflections out and just leaves it as sonic mush. That makes "hearing" what is happening much more difficult. Optimum is to keep the major reflections >20ms (approx 20 feet) away from the direct sound. The early reflections help the brain sort out how big we think the room is. Small rooms have a lot of reflections of the reflections, further muddying up what we hear and can interpret!

    Turning around in a bedroom most often only accomplished in changing the wall from which the early reflection comes from. It could change the "hearability" too. I would suspect in "too small" rooms, more damping is better.

    The bottom line is that we try stuff and listen to the tiny voice inside. The spoon sized predigested factoids typed on the internet can lead the witness into hearing whatever the poster wants them to.

    Glossary: Early Reflections | Sweetwater.com
    Early Reflections Explained : Ready Acoustics!, Hear - Sound - Better
    RealTraps - Creating a Reflection-Free Zone
    What Are Early Reflection Points. Acoustic Panels and Bass Traps.
    Strong Early Reflections & First Reflections | Acoustic Frontiers

    Think about the following: successful pros all have great sounds. Perhaps the fact that they often play in bigger, good sounding rooms has helped them develop their sound concept.
     
  9. Dupac

    Dupac Fortissimo User

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    Rowuk wrote :

    "I do NOT advocate playing into a corner. Those that have studied how we hear are aware of an effect called early reflections. These are reflections that reach the ear at less than 10ms (approx 10 feet). Our brain does not have the horsepower to sort those reflections out and just leaves it as sonic mush. That makes "hearing" what is happening much more difficult. Optimum is to keep the major reflections >20ms (approx 20 feet) away from the direct sound. The early reflections help the brain sort out how big we think the room is. Small rooms have a lot of reflections of the reflections, further muddying up what we hear and can interpret!

    Turning around in a bedroom most often only accomplished in changing the wall from which the early reflection comes from. It could change the "hearability" too. I would suspect in "too small" rooms, more damping is better.
    "

    All this is clear and needs to be applied. Thank you, Rowuk.
    I now have a complementary question for you :

    When we use the Yamaha Silent Brass mute, can what we hear in the headphones be compared to a particular situation you described above ?

    Many thanks in advance for your answer.

    Mikel

    To clarify my question :

    Of course, the built-in mike doesn't pick anymore reflections, but what type of perception does the software reproduce, especially using the "echo" position ?
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2012
  10. study888

    study888 Mezzo Forte User

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    Ditto rowuk,a problem I am having as well. The only room I have at home to practice in has very bad accoustic feed back. Has me at times playing to loud. Room to small and full of various books of study.

    Can only use the bigger Den room when wife is out shopping etc. When I am in the larger room,playing is easier and more relaxed.

    One of the problems of being a Trumpet player,non muscians and most musicians do not want to hear one practice.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2012

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