Home Ultrasonic Cleaner

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by hhsTrumpet, Sep 22, 2014.

  1. tobylou8

    tobylou8 Utimate User

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    Charlie is a pro! He weighs the merits of ultrasonic on old horns based on possible harm that could be done.
     
  2. musicalmason

    musicalmason Forte User

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    So you would trust the opinion of an online forum more than Charlie Melk? One of the most respected techs in the trade....you made a good choice by sending your horn there, it would not have been a good choice to not trust his judgement.
     
  3. trumpetsplus

    trumpetsplus Fortissimo User

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    Charlie is a master. I would trust his judgement on whether to not a horn would benefit by ultrasonic cleaning.
     
  4. Kevin Whiting

    Kevin Whiting Piano User

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    Just saying, would have questioned. Never had anything serviced by Charlie until now.

    Of coarse, now I have TOTAL confidence.

    I'm lucky, Charlies only about 15 min. from my house. REALLY NICE GUY TOO!
     
  5. veery715

    veery715 Utimate User

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    I have a quart+ sized machine and have cleaned valves, slides, caps, and other small parts with no detectable adverse impact except it persuaded the lacquer of a few slides (when I had not intended that). Short periods of exposure work best coupled with mechanical (scrubbing, snaking, use of an internal jet hose) methods.
    It did a nice job on Volvo window switch contacts, and other electrical stuff.
     
  6. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    The nature of threads like this show some very interesting consistencies.

    I think that most of us would agree that trumpets are made of soft malleable metals. Solder is even softer. I assume that most of us would also agree that trumpets change their characteristics over years based on the vibrations of playing. For those of us that have an intimate relationship with our instrument would probably even notice if someone else played our instrument for an extended period of time. I certainly have enough proof to back up this "belief".

    Now enter an industrial ultrasound bath-hundreds of times more powerful than playing vibrations, not harmonically related to playing. Now tell me it doesn't matter. Sure if we are talking about a new horn or one in bad shape, we probably can weigh the pros and cons. I am not talking about student horns, I am not talking about ebay finds and I an not talking about horns used by those with playing habits lacking resolution. I am sure that if someone made this a doctoral thesis that there woul be a lot of resistance to what they find out.
     
  7. trumpetsplus

    trumpetsplus Fortissimo User

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    I, for one, would welcome such a study. Conn-Selmer funded one on cryogenics, maybe one of the majors will fund one on ultrasonics?
     
  8. musicalmason

    musicalmason Forte User

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    I'm not on board with that. Never heard of it, or anything to support it. It has also not been my experience. To me, this would fall under the category of, if you think it, your brain will make it true. Ie. voodoo.
    I too, would love to see a study, although I imagine the results will be similarly inconclusive to those of the cryogenic study. Sure, you can study the metal, but the way players judge the way horns play is just way too objective for there ever to be any consistent data on it. I guess I'll leave it at this, if you don't trust uc, don't use it. Your call.

    Edit to add:


    I just wanted to add something here. Nothing I wrote there was intended to be disrespectful or anything like that. I have nothing but respect for Rowuk, but we clearly do not see eye to eye on this issue. I doubt any further arguments will change either of our minds. This doesn't mean I don't like him or think less of him, simply that we disagree.
     
  9. Brekelefuw

    Brekelefuw Fortissimo User

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    The ultrasonic machines used in repair are built for instruments, and do no operate at nearly the intensity that they are used in other industries.
    When I was trained, we were instructed to never leave a horn in the US for more than 2 minutes, and never use the water heater on the machine.
    I never had an issue with a horn, and I was working on horns that had been beat up and repaired countless times while at repair school.
     
  10. rowuk

    rowuk Moderator Staff Member

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    Actually, this is data that I have. Spectral analysis of three horns over 5 years. The control horn was only played for the test and did not change. The two working horns changed, the one used for lead playing, quite dramatically. We checked the impedance maxima(intonation) as well as the harmonic content.

    I ran across this after having a bell repaired. Even although the tech used the correct mandrel, the horn was stuffy. we ended up detaching the bell and annealing/tempering it anew. The ring came back.

    Actually, there is no issue here. We are all free to do whatever we want and I exercize no criticism of those choosing differently. I am happy that no one reports negative results, although I don't see proof in either direction. I will continue on the cautious side.
     

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