Horns in the winter

Discussion in 'Trumpet Discussion' started by RB-R37297, Dec 3, 2009.

  1. RB-R37297

    RB-R37297 Pianissimo User

    146
    2
    Mar 12, 2009
    Winnipeg, Manitoba
    Thanks for all your help. I was mostly just worried about water in the horn freezing and maybe bending the horn just slightly out of shape.
     
  2. trumpetjump

    trumpetjump New Friend

    24
    0
    Mar 5, 2010
    PA
    To dhbailey:
    Is that a 3C in your pocket or are you just happy that Spring's on its way?
     
  3. Buck with a Bach

    Buck with a Bach Fortissimo User

    Age:
    68
    4,009
    719
    Dec 29, 2009
    Canton, Ohio
    ROFL:roll::play::oops:
     
  4. Ric232

    Ric232 Pianissimo User

    246
    8
    Apr 30, 2009
    Coastal GA
    The tubing would have to be essentially full of water in order for the expansion (upon freezing) to distort the tubing. I'm not even sure that would do it, although I think freezing water can distort just about any material of tubing. But since you'd just have droplets of water in your horn, the worst you'll have is a few ice crystals.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2010
  5. guyclark

    guyclark Piano User

    344
    7
    Feb 28, 2008
    Los Gatos, CA
    Rowuk said:
    "Lou,
    the intonation change in the cold is true, but the length of the instrument doesn't change enough to explain the big difference. I think it is the speed of sound at those temperatures. Just like the pitch of our voice changes with helium due to the speed of sound in that medium. I think I am flat when cold. Could be the German churches though............"

    He is quite correct. It is the increase of air density when it gets cold, that increases the speed of sound in the air vibrating inside the trumpet, which means that the horn then appears to be longer than it is when the air is warm, making the pitch go down.

    A related phenomenon is when you drink a carbonated beverage prior to playing and you burp while playing: Instant full step flattening of the pitch, in my (copious) experience!

    The opposite occurs if you inhale helium gas. The helium air is much less dense than the normal air, and the pitch of your trumpet goes up and we talk like the Chipmunks.

    Understanding physics has made life so much easier and more rewarding for me!!! ;-)

    Guy
     
  6. guyclark

    guyclark Piano User

    344
    7
    Feb 28, 2008
    Los Gatos, CA
    Ric said:

    "The tubing would have to be essentially full of water in order for the expansion (upon freezing) to distort the tubing. I'm not even sure that would do it, although I think freezing water can distort just about any material of tubing. But since you'd just have droplets of water in your horn, the worst you'll have is a few ice crystals."

    Don't forget that many instrument manufacturers actually freeze water (water and detergent solution, typically) inside tubing to be bent. Usually, it is the bell bow that is shown being filled, frozen and then bent (see "How it's made" on Discovery Channel for a short clip on trumpet manufacture, as well as a couple of other Discovery/Science channel shows).

    The relatively incompressable ice prevents the bending tubing from collapsing during the bend process (remember that the outside radius of the bend has to be stretched, while the inner radius of the bend has to be compressed, while the centerline of the bend remains (relatively) unstressed.

    Again, physics (and the Discovery Channel) to the rescue!!

    Guy
     

Share This Page